Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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The gun might look similar to any regular weapon, however, it's missing one major piece: the registration to make it legally owned.
What a crock. I'm glad I'm in Texas where our guns are not registered.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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SubRosa wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:41 am https://www.ksby.com/news/local-news/sa ... ghost-guns?

This whole thing smells, not just the GG.

SR
So, in a nutshell, the dogs are trained to sniff out firearms--steel, polymer, commonly-used firearm lubricants, GSR. Since in California authorities know who is in legal possession of firearms, they could include the dogs on any interactions with people at their homes, where desired. I gather the state's APPS already does this.

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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And therefore useless unless they are staffed to physically search every traveler’s luggage... not likely.

Unless polymer emits a specific odor that these dogs can distinguish, I’m guessing they are actually smelling burnt gunpowder residue. One step away from utter BS.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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K9's can certainly be trained to alert on polymers, though gun powder and lubricants would be a much stronger signal IMO.
K9's possess up to 300 million olfactory receptors in their noses, compared to about six million in humans, plus the part of a K9's brain that is devoted to analyzing smells is about 40 times greater than ours.
Last edited by DJD100 on Thu May 20, 2021 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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senorgrand wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:48 pm The legal issue then is that none of these odors belongs to items unique to illegal objects (like say explosives or drugs) and therefore the cops really don't have just cause to search.
Exactly. The dog won’t know an illegal gun from a legal one.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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There's been some work indicating that some search dogs pick up cues from their handler, and will alert whenever they feel that the handler wants them to. Wait -
This case, via FourthAmendment.com, is an amazing anomaly. Not only did the court choose to hear from experts on drug dog training and handling, it actually went so far as to call into question the reliability of every drug dog in the state.

The suppression order [PDF] contains a subheading rarely seen in federal court decisions:

A. The court has serious concerns about Tank's training and reliability.

Tank is Officer Moore's drug dog. Officer Moore handled the training in accordance with Utah's Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) guidelines. Unfortunately, those guidelines do nothing to prevent officers from turning drug dogs into subservient partners with a desire to please and a willingness to respond to handler cues.

Officer Moore claimed he worked with Tank regularly to improve both obedience and "drug locating." The court says this simply isn't true -- not from what's on the record.

Notwithstanding Officer Moore’s testimony, evidence at the Hearing raised serious questions about the sufficiency and veracity of Tank’s training. First, the police training records supported that between July 2018, when Tank was certified, and November 2018, Officer Moore only conducted four narcotics trainings with him. Moreover, from October 20, 2018 through March 1, 2019, a period that enveloped the search of Mr. Jordan’s vehicle, Officer Moore only performed one narcotic training exercises that involved searching an area that did not contain narcotics, compared to 27 “normal” exercises where there were narcotics present to be found.

The defense brought in an expert witness, Dr. Mary Cablik, who has two decades of drug dog training experience working with POST units in Nevada and California. Cablik said the absence of "blind" training is a real problem. If the dog is only tested in areas where the handler knows drugs will be found, the dog carries this knowledge on to the real world and will continue to search for nonexistent drugs until it gives its handler what they want: an "alert."
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200 ... able.shtml

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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wings wrote:There's been some work indicating that some search dogs pick up cues from their handler, and will alert whenever they feel that the handler wants them to. Wait -
This case, via FourthAmendment.com, is an amazing anomaly. Not only did the court choose to hear from experts on drug dog training and handling, it actually went so far as to call into question the reliability of every drug dog in the state.

The suppression order [PDF] contains a subheading rarely seen in federal court decisions:

A. The court has serious concerns about Tank's training and reliability.

Tank is Officer Moore's drug dog. Officer Moore handled the training in accordance with Utah's Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) guidelines. Unfortunately, those guidelines do nothing to prevent officers from turning drug dogs into subservient partners with a desire to please and a willingness to respond to handler cues.

Officer Moore claimed he worked with Tank regularly to improve both obedience and "drug locating." The court says this simply isn't true -- not from what's on the record.

Notwithstanding Officer Moore’s testimony, evidence at the Hearing raised serious questions about the sufficiency and veracity of Tank’s training. First, the police training records supported that between July 2018, when Tank was certified, and November 2018, Officer Moore only conducted four narcotics trainings with him. Moreover, from October 20, 2018 through March 1, 2019, a period that enveloped the search of Mr. Jordan’s vehicle, Officer Moore only performed one narcotic training exercises that involved searching an area that did not contain narcotics, compared to 27 “normal” exercises where there were narcotics present to be found.

The defense brought in an expert witness, Dr. Mary Cablik, who has two decades of drug dog training experience working with POST units in Nevada and California. Cablik said the absence of "blind" training is a real problem. If the dog is only tested in areas where the handler knows drugs will be found, the dog carries this knowledge on to the real world and will continue to search for nonexistent drugs until it gives its handler what they want: an "alert."
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200 ... able.shtml
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Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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senorgrand wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:44 pm I guess if a cop said that a dog indicated I had a gun in my bag/car, I'd want to know what kept the dog from triggering on the cop's gun
Sorry, obviously the dog would be aware of it's handler's gun and not alert to it, via "training".

What's fishy is a dog being able to alert on "ghost guns", as the dog would have idea whether the gun had a serial number or not LOL!

Re: Ghost gun sniffer?

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DJD100 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 2:12 am
senorgrand wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:44 pm I guess if a cop said that a dog indicated I had a gun in my bag/car, I'd want to know what kept the dog from triggering on the cop's gun
Sorry, obviously the dog would be aware of it's handler's gun and not alert to it, via "training".

What's fishy is a dog being able to alert on "ghost guns", as the dog would have idea whether the gun had a serial number or not LOL!
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