Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Bumped by a week - got my annual flu shot today whilst grocery shopping. Had booster Pfizer Covid 3 weeks ago and wanted to wait 4 weeks, but decided, WTH, no line, I'm here, do it!

Talked with bro yesterday - he and wife have both recovered fully from their Covid breakthru last month. Didn't ask if they'd gotten a booster.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Bisbee wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm The WHO continues to stress that the developing countries still do not have vaccines enough for their populations, asking that rich countries do not give third booster shots yet without providing vaccines for the first Covid shots for people throughout the world. The calls for a booster moratorium in wealthy countries has largely been ignored...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/08/who-ext ... -year.html
The booster thing is a rough call. I think it makes sense to booster immunocompromised and older people. It also looks like Moderna is lasting longer than Pfizer. But really, what is needed is a massive boost in production and distribution. If we don't get the vax rate up globally, we're going to end up with mutation that puts us right back at square one.

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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featureless wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:59 pm
Bisbee wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm The WHO continues to stress that the developing countries still do not have vaccines enough for their populations, asking that rich countries do not give third booster shots yet without providing vaccines for the first Covid shots for people throughout the world. The calls for a booster moratorium in wealthy countries has largely been ignored...

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/08/who-ext ... -year.html
The booster thing is a rough call. I think it makes sense to booster immunocompromised and older people. It also looks like Moderna is lasting longer than Pfizer. But really, what is needed is a massive boost in production and distribution. If we don't get the vax rate up globally, we're going to end up with mutation that puts us right back at square one.
Yep. That is exactly what will happen.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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lurker wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:08 pm it's almost as if the virus has taken control of the antivaxers' and antimaskers' minds.
Could we start that as a rumor. The COVID Virus has an undetected stealth mode that takes control of the antivaxers' and antimaskers' minds and also doesn't show positive on COVID test. The only way it can be detected is when a person believes the Qanon or other rightwing theories and expresses them. A real surefire test to prove they are infected is if they support DJT. :whistle:
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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A team of Israeli scientists say that a drug previously used in an uncontrolled fashion to treat HIV has a direct antiviral effect against coronavirus, sending patients home virus-free within only a few days.

Code Pharma, which is headquartered in the Netherlands but has its research and development office in Israel and an Israeli CEO, recently completed a Phase I trial of its drug Codivir for use against coronavirus. On Monday, the Israeli research team that will support the Phase II trial applied for permission from the Helsinki Committee to move forward at the Barzilai Medical Center.

The Phase II study, which will involve around 150 patients and is expected to launch in the next month, will also take place in Spain, Brazil and South Africa. According to Code Pharma CEO Zyon Ayni, the goal is to complete the trial within about three to six months and then already apply for emergency use authorization of the drug.

“In the first and second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, many of the drugs with putative or proven antiviral mechanisms of action have not proven themselves to significantly prolong life expectancy,” said Prof. Shlomo Maayan, director of the Infectious Disease division at Barzilai. He is advising Code Pharma as it moves forward with Codivir but receives no financial or other compensation.

“Codivir has a very good safety profile and a very impressive antiviral effect, both in laboratory conditions and in a phase I clinical trial in humans,” he said. “We eagerly await the results of the double-blind studies using Codivir. It may be a breakthrough in the field of antiviral therapy for early COVID-19 patients.”

The Phase I trial was recently completed in Brazil at Casa de Saúde – Vera Cruz Hospital in São Paulo, Brazil, under the approval of the National Research Ethics Commission (CONEP). Twelve patients between the ages of 18 and 60 with mild to moderate coronavirus participated in the study.

Seven of the volunteers were tested sequentially using a standard PCR swab test every two days from the time they began receiving the treatment, which like insulin is given subcutaneously – injection under the skin. Patients received two injections per day for 10 days.

Maayan said that five of the patients showed a very profound decline in the viral load during the treatment. Codivir significantly suppressed viral replication in all patients with an antiviral effect noted as early as three days after the beginning of treatment. Moreover, the safety profile of the drug was very good. There were no significant side effects from the treatment itself, Ayni said, nor did those who received the drug show any signs of side effects that are very often associated with COVID-19 infections.

Manuscripts describing these results have been submitted to a peer-reviewed journal.
CODIVIR IS based on a short 16 amino-acid peptide derived from the HIV-1 integrase. It was first discovered by researchers at the Hebrew University, who are still involved with the company. “The initial idea was to eradicate HIV-infected cells,” the CEO explained, noting that the drug seemed to induce HIV cell death in pre-clinical trials. Around the time that the coronavirus pandemic was beginning, Code Pharma was testing the drug unofficially in HIV patients in the Congo.

“One hospital there started administering it to COVID-19 patients, too, and they got completely better – some in hours and some in days,” Ayni said. The hospital then requested additional doses, which it administered in an unofficial clinical trial, where doctors divided and tracked patients who received Codivir and patients who did not. All of the patients were between the ages of 35 and 78 and were being treated in the intensive care unit – though he said the ICU in the Congo does not look like a Western ICU, meaning the patients were only receiving oxygen.

“The doctor gave them the medication and saw that in only nine days, two patients completely recovered and the rest got much better and almost had no trace of the virus. Of the 15 people who did not receive the medication, 14 died. “It was very clear we were onto something, but we did not know what,” Ayni said. So, the company decided to conduct in-vitro studies at the well-respected Virology Research Services in London, with what Maayan described as “excellent results.”

“We saw complete elimination of the virus in 90% to 100% of cells in less than 24 hours,” Ayni said, noting that the results play out slightly differently in people. However, one thing was clear to Code Pharma: The laboratory studies demonstrated a potent antiviral activity.
The lab results are what led to the Brazil trial. The Phase II multinational trial will be double-blind and also evaluate Codivir in the treatment of mild to moderate cases.

“The idea is that if the data we generated from Phase I with no controls repeats itself, this will be a significant achievement,” Maayan said. “If the results do not repeat themselves, then it is a no-go. “But with both the laboratory results and the Phase I trial so encouraging, it looks promising,” he said.

Due to the high levels of COVID infection continuing around the world, the company is already preparing to submit emergency approval requests to several countries once the Phase II trial is complete, Ayni said. It is also preparing for mass production of Codivir at different sites worldwide. “The world is in need of an antiviral medication against COVID.”
https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellne ... -19-679437
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Pfizer said Monday that its COVID-19 vaccine works for children ages 5 to 11 and that it will seek U.S. authorization for this age group soon — a key step toward beginning vaccinations for youngsters.

The vaccine made by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech already is available for anyone 12 and older. But with kids now back in school and the extra-contagious Delta variant causing a huge jump in pediatric infections, many parents are anxiously awaiting vaccinations for their younger children.

For elementary school-age kids, Pfizer tested a much lower dose — a third of the amount that’s in each shot given now. Yet after their second dose, children ages 5 to 11 developed coronavirus-fighting antibody levels just as strong as teenagers and young adults, Dr. Bill Gruber, a Pfizer senior vice president, told the Associated Press.

The kid dosage also proved safe, with similar or fewer temporary side effects — such as sore arms, fever or achiness — that teens experience, he said.

“I think we really hit the sweet spot,” said Gruber, who is also a pediatrician.

Gruber said the companies aim to apply to the Food and Drug Administration by the end of the month for emergency use in this age group, followed shortly afterward with applications to European and British regulators.

This month, FDA chief Dr. Peter Marks told the AP that once Pfizer turns over its study results, his agency would evaluate the data “hopefully in a matter of weeks” to decide if the shots are safe and effective enough for younger kids.

Many Western countries so far have vaccinated children no younger than age 12, awaiting evidence of what is the right dose and that it works safely in smaller tots. But Cuba last week began immunizing children as young as 2 with its homegrown vaccines, and Chinese regulators have cleared two of its brands down to age 3.

Although kids are at lower risk of severe illness or death than older people, more than 5 million children in the U.S. have tested positive for the coronavirus since the pandemic began and at least 460 have died, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Cases in children have risen dramatically as the Delta variant swept through the country.

“I feel a great sense of urgency” in making the vaccine available to children under 12, Gruber said. “There’s pent-up demand for parents to be able to have their children returned to a normal life.”
Pfizer said it studied the lower dose in 2,268 kindergartners and elementary school-age kids. The FDA required what is called an immune “bridging” study: evidence that the younger children developed antibody levels already proved to be protective in teens and adults. That’s what Pfizer reported Monday in a news release, not a scientific publication. The study still is ongoing, and there haven’t yet been enough coronavirus cases to compare rates between the vaccinated and those given a placebo — something that might offer additional evidence.

The study isn’t large enough to detect any extremely rare side effects, such as the heart inflammation that sometimes occurs after the second dose, mostly in young men. The FDA’s Marks said the pediatric studies should be large enough to rule out any higher risk to young children. Pfizer’s Gruber said once the vaccine is authorized for younger children, they’ll be carefully monitored for rare risks just like everyone else.

A second U.S. vaccine maker, Moderna, also is studying its shots in elementary school-age children. Pfizer and Moderna are studying even younger tots as well, down to 6-month-olds. Results are expected later in the year.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2 ... ne-5-to-11
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Today is the first day of Fall and like last year, people will start congregating indoors without masks and in some places running the central heating. This could lead to another surge among the unvaccinated and vaccinated.

Today the CDC advisory committee on vaccines meets and we'll see if they agree that all those over 65 should receive COVID boosters like the FDA advisory committee recommended. Or if everyone over 12 years of age should receive a booster as the WH would like. Either way, the administrators of the FDA and CDC can act independently, the committees only provide advisory recommendations.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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A new study of Texas prison inmates provides more evidence that coronavirus can spread even in groups where most people are vaccinated.

A COVID-19 outbreak at a federal prison in July and August infected 172 male inmates in two prison housing units, according to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report released Tuesday.

About 80% of the inmates in the units had been vaccinated. More than 90% of the unvaccinated inmates wound up being infected, as did 70% of the fully vaccinated prisoners.

Severe illness, however, was more common among the unvaccinated. The hospitalization rate was almost 10 times higher for them compared with those who got the shots.

It echoes research into a July outbreak in Provincetown, Massachusetts, where several hundred people were infected -- about three-quarters of whom were fully vaccinated.

Such reports have prompted a renewed push by health officials for even vaccinated people to wear masks and take other precautions. They believe the delta variant, a version of coronavirus that spreads more easily, and possibly waning immunity may be playing a role.

The authors did not identify the prison, but media reports in July detailed a similar-sized outbreak at the federal prison in Texarkana.
https://www.kswo.com/2021/09/21/cdc-stu ... accinated/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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The US Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday it would grant emergency use authorization for a booster dose of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine in people 65 and older, people at high risk of severe disease and people whose jobs put them at risk of infection.

"After considering the totality of the available scientific evidence and the deliberations of our advisory committee of independent, external experts, the FDA amended the EUA for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to allow for a booster dose in certain populations such as health care workers, teachers and day care staff, grocery workers and those in homeless shelters or prisons, among others," acting FDA Commissioner Dr. Janet Woodcock said in a statement.

On Friday, vaccine advisers to the agency unanimously recommended emergency use authorization for a booster dose of Pfizer's vaccine for people 65 and older and those at risk of severe disease, to be six months after they get the first two doses.

"The FDA considered the committee's input and conducted its own thorough review of the submitted data to reach today's decision," Dr. Peter Marks, who directs the FDA's vaccine arm, the Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, said in a statement. "We will continue to analyze data submitted to the FDA pertaining to the use of booster doses of COVID-19 vaccines and we will make further decisions as appropriate based on the data."

It was a consolation prize for Pfizer, which has asked for FDA approval to give its vaccine to everyone 16 and older six months after they are fully immunized with two shots. Pfizer had argued that it had enough evidence that immunity starts to wane after six months and that giving a booster restores the immunity safely.

Vaccine advisers to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have been discussing boosters, and will meet Thursday to act on the FDA's decision. The CDC must give its stamp of approval for any booster doses to be officially given. CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices can further tweak recommendations for how any vaccine booster doses should be given.

In a letter sent Thursday and obtained by CNN, the CDC urged local and state health officials to wait to administer boosters until both agencies had signed off.

Third doses are already approved for certain immunocompromised people, but not for the general public. About 2.3 million Americans have already received third doses of Pfizer's vaccine, according to the CDC.

Moderna has asked the FDA to approve booster shots for its vaccine, but the FDA so far has only considered Pfizer's bid. Johnson & Johnson released partial data this week that it said showed a booster dose greatly raised immunity, but the company has not yet applied with the FDA to consider a booster vaccine dose.

The FDA's Dr. Doran Fink told ACIP Wednesday that there is no data on the safety or efficacy of mixing and matching vaccines - boosting with a dose of a brand of vaccine that is different from that used for the original immunization.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/22/health/f ... index.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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:hmmm: sometimes, the things you learn.

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interesting glassdoor says they're HQ'ed in the philippines, linkedin says los angeles, others say north beach... yeah, i'm putting WAY too much thought into this.
never submit! (click "submit" button now.)

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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highdesert wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:41 am
The US Food and Drug Administration said Wednesday it would grant emergency use authorization for a booster dose of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine in people 65 and older, people at high risk of severe disease and people whose jobs put them at risk of infection.


The FDA's Dr. Doran Fink told ACIP Wednesday that there is no data on the safety or efficacy of mixing and matching vaccines - boosting with a dose of a brand of vaccine that is different from that used for the original immunization.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/22/health/f ... index.html
Ya know, I'm gonna sit this booster thing out and I have good reason too. I've had two phizers so I'm feeling good about it.
Couple months ago I got three vaccines at once and ended up with a rash that wouldn't go away for several weeks. I felt like peeling off my skin. I recieved the pneumococcal vaccine, a Tetanus vaccine and the first of two shingles of the new vaccines even though I had the older vaccine. Don't ever get three vaccines at once even if your doctor says it's ok.
Besides feeling ill for a week (sure everyone reacts differently) I'm certain one of them gave me that rash. But cannot be sure which one I reacted to. Yup, sounding like an anti-vaxxer now lol
Last week I got the flu vaccine. I'm all vaxxed out!!!
Redneck Liberal This Is The Way

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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I always wait two weeks to a month between vaccines, each one has some side effects and the pneumonia vaccine for me was the worst. I'll get my Pfizer booster once the CDC has approved it. Have to wait and see their criteria - will it be six months after the second dose of Pfizer or 8 months after the second dose of Pfizer. The pharmacy I regularly go to has the Pfizer vaccine.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Southern California r-naught factor reportedly below 1, which means the disease spread is decreasing though the number of hose infected per 100k is still on par with the national average. LA county reports .8 and OC, San Diego reports .6. CA Covid-19 response is likely a major factor why the Gov survived the recall effort.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Wino wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:19 pm SATX had 630+ day before yesterday and 840+ yesterday w/10 new deaths.

Guv Abbott doing a bang up job!! You Go Abbott!! :sarcasm: Dumb SOB!!!
The Guv and the Lt. Guv along with the AG are doing all they can to prevent Repugs from getting reelected in Texas. There won't be enough left alive to vote for them.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Two large inland counties in So Cal, San Bernardino and Riverside called the Inland Empire, border LA County on the west and Arizona and Nevada on the east.
The Inland Empire hit its peak of hospitalizations on Sept. 1, when 1,246 coronavirus-infected people were hospitalized, the equivalent of 28 hospitalizations for every 100,000 residents.

That’s 56% worse than the peak for the three-county coastal region of Los Angeles, Orange and Ventura counties, which recorded 18 hospitalizations for every 100,000 residents at its peak on Aug. 17; and also worse than San Diego County, which peaked on Aug. 27 with 20 hospitalizations for every 100,000 residents.

The Times analysis found that no other counties in Southern California have had a higher hospitalization rate this summer — including impoverished and largely agricultural Imperial County on the Mexican border, which had Southern California’s worst hospitalization rate during each of the pandemic’s first three surges last year, but not during the fourth wave this summer.

Despite previous coronavirus vulnerabilities — the result of overcrowded homes, high rates of poverty and huge numbers of essential workers — Los Angeles County, too, observed significantly lower hospitalization rates than the Inland Empire.

Vaccination rates are likely influencing the varied hospitalization numbers. The Inland Empire has the lowest vaccination rate in all of Southern California.

Just 47.2% of residents of all ages in San Bernardino County are fully vaccinated, and only 50.4% of residents in Riverside County are. By contrast, 60% of L.A. County residents are fully vaccinated, as are 61.3% of Ventura County residents, 62.1% of Orange County residents, 64.5% of San Diego County residents and 66.2% of Imperial County residents.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... and-empire

IE counties have a lot of work to do to get more people vaccinated ahead of the next surge.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Friday overruled a recommendation by an agency advisory panel that had refused to endorse booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine for frontline workers. It was a highly unusual move for the director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, but aligned C.D.C. policy with the Food and Drug Administration’s endorsements over her own agency’s advisers.

The C.D.C.’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices on Thursday recommended the boosters for a wide range of Americans, including tens of millions of older adults and younger people at high risk for the disease. But they excluded health care workers, teachers and others whose jobs put them at risk. That put their recommendations at odds with the F.D.A.’s authorization of booster shots for all adults with a high occupational risk.

Dr. Walensky’s decision was a boost for President Biden’s campaign to give a broad swathe of Americans access to boosters. The White House had come under criticism for getting ahead of the regulatory process.

The C.D.C.’s statement arrived well past midnight, a sign of the complicated and confusing decision-making surrounding the boosters. The C.D.C. advisers similarly spent two days debating who should get boosters and when, and could not agree on whether occupational risk should qualify as a criterion.

“I am surprised that Dr. Walensky overturned one of the four A.C.I.P. votes today, and I believe others will be as well,” said Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, an infectious disease expert at Stanford and the American Academy of Pediatrics liaison to the committee.

But the vote on boosters for occupational risk “was close,” Dr. Maldonado said, and agreed with Dr. Walensky’s decision.

“This addresses not only waning immunity but those at high risk of exposure,” Dr. Maldonado added.

Minutes before Dr. Walensky’s statement, Dr. Amanda Cohn, who oversaw the two-day meeting of the panel, tried to prepare the advisers for the director’s decision.

“Dr. Walensky is reversing the decision to not recommend use of a booster dose in persons at high risk for occupational or institutional exposure,” Dr. Cohn wrote in the email. “I am hoping to share this news with you before you see it in the press.”

Dr. Walensky’s decision to go against her own agency’s advisers came as a surprise to at least some of her staff members: The C.D.C. director’s endorsement of the advisory committee’s recommendations is typically just a formality. Hours before her statement, agency insiders predicted she would stick with the usual protocol because doing otherwise would undermine the process and upset the advisers as well as her own staff.

But experts outside the C.D.C. said Dr. Walensky may have had no choice but to align herself with the F.D.A.’s decision. “There’s a complexity here, because Dr. Walensky was part of the White House announcement” on boosters, noted Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health.

Dr. Walensky said providing booster shots to health care workers and others who risk contracting the disease on the job would “best serve the nation’s public health needs.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/09/23 ... nt-vaccine
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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CA is preparing for boosters/third doses of COVID vaccines. The boosters have been available since August for immunocompromised.
Officials have already observed less intense demand than they had expected for third doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for certain immunocompromised people, which began to be distributed in mid-August. California officials, for instance, had expected the demand for third doses among that group to peak the week of Aug. 30, forecasting 114,000 doses to be administered that week, significantly more than the 75,000 doses that were given.

California officials estimate that about 259,000 third doses for the immunocompromised have been administered since mid-August. That’s only about one-third of the state’s population of people with moderately to severely compromised immune systems.

State officials say it’s possible that demand for the COVID-19 boosters could surge, especially if there’s a worse-than-expected autumn and winter outbreak. Already, Kaiser Permanente is planning for mass vaccination sites, as are other local health jurisdictions. Booster administration for those 65 and older will rely mostly on pharmacies and primary healthcare offices, while mass vaccination clinics may need to be reopened or expanded if eligibility is offered more broadly among younger adults. Pharmacies currently provide more than 60% of administered vaccine doses and can probably handle more demand, state officials say.

School-based vaccine clinics, pharmacies and pediatricians will likely be the primary sites for vaccinations for those younger than 12 when children become eligible for vaccination. The California Health and Human Services Agency says vaccinations for 5- to 11-year-olds might start by mid-October.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ligibility
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: New SARS type virus spreading in China

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Yesterday Biden talked to the media about booster shots for those 65 and over and pushed those eligible to get them. He received the Pfizer vaccine in January and said he planned on getting a booster. My county no longer books COVID vaccine appmts. for their DPH sites, it's either the federal site: vaccines.gov or the CA state site: myturn.ca.gov or book with an individual pharmacy.

Went to the state website and they already listed the new eligibility for a booster dose.
Booster dose: Available to Californians age 65+ OR age 18+ and a resident of a long-term care facility; a person at high risk for COVID-19 complications; a person at high risk for COVID-19 exposure due to occupation or institutional setting; or a person age 50-64 and at increased risk of social inequities. Note that only people who received their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine at least 6 months ago are eligible for a Booster dose, regardless of age or health.
https://myturn.ca.gov

And they linked to the CDC press release.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021 ... ions-.html

So I booked an appmt at the county DPH location and drove over. They told me they were only giving 3rd doses to immunocompromised and that I wasn't eligible as the county hadn't approved it. Someone did check the state website and confirmed what I told them.

I'll try next week.

Note the criteria of:
...people aged 18-64 years who are at increased risk for COVID-19 exposure and transmission because of occupational or institutional setting...
That's really open ended and could include almost everyone.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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