Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A famous youtube influencer of things spiritual was looking for an apprentice. Two youngsters applied, and he gave each one a mountain lion cub and a large knife. He instructed them to go and kill the cub where no one would see. The first kid went behind the garage and killed the cub. The second kid did not return for three days. He came back carrying the cub, alive. When asked why he did not kill the cub, the kid said, "the cub sees."

The influencer chose the one kid and rejected the other.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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Just last summer in So Cal.
A California woman has been called “a hero” by state officials after she fought off a mountain lion with her bare hands after it attacked her 5-year-old son.

The boy was playing by a tree near his home in Calabasas, west of Los Angeles, on Thursday morning when a 65-pound mountain lion attacked him, according to the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. Department spokesman Patrick Foy told the Associated Press the mountain lion “dragged him about 45 yards" before his mother, came to the rescue.

"She ran out of the house and started punching and striking the mountain lion with her bare hands and got him off her son," Foy said. "The true hero of this story is his mom because she absolutely saved her son’s life."

Foy told CBSLA the boy's mother noticed the attack when she heard her son screaming. He added the boy suffered traumatic injuries to his head and torso and was taken to a children's hospital in Los Angeles.

After law enforcement was notified of the attack, wildlife officials went to the family's home when an officer noticed an "aggressive" mountain lion in the corner of the property. Officials said because of the mountain lion's behavior and location, they, "believed it was likely the attacking lion and to protect public safety, shot and killed it" on the property, which evidence proved to be true.

"Wildlife Forensics Scientists analyzed samples from underneath the claws of the suspect lion carcass and isolated traces of human tissue and blood with a DNA profile that matched the young victim," the department said in the statement. "Results were conclusive that it was the attacking lion that was shot by the wildlife officer on scene."

Shortly after the suspected mountain lion was killed, two more mountain lions, including one full-grown adult with a radio collar and one similar to the deceased lion, appeared.

Citing safety concerns, officials used a nonlethal tranquilizer on the uncollared, similar mountain lion. After confirming the tranquilized mountain lion was not involved in the attack, it was released back into the wild.

The size of the deceased mountain lion indicated it was a kitten born less than one year ago, according to officials. Experts told CBSLA the attack might have happened because the boy was small and the mountain lion is still trying to learn how to hunt for food.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 643763001/


Not just mountain lions, a Colorado woman was killed by bears last year.
A Colorado Parks and Wildlife incident report confirmed that bears were the only animals involved in a fatal attack on a 39-year-old Durango woman April 30.

Laney Malavolta was found dead in a wooded area north of Durango and near Trimble Lane (County Road 252). The subsequent investigation concluded that a sow and two cubs were responsible for her death, based on information gathered from the initial CPW investigation and autopsy and necropsy results.

In the weeks after Malavolta’s death, rumors grew in La Plata County that a mountain lion might have been involved in the attack.

“We are aware there are some folks that might think that,” said Travis Duncan, CPW spokesman.

But investigators found no evidence that a mountain lion was in the area, he said.

“We think why that rumor might be popping up is because the body was cached,” or partially buried in debris, Duncan said.

Mountain lions frequently cast plant life and dirt over prey to hide it, then return later. Black bears show the same behavior, although it is not as common as with mountain lions.

The cause of death was determined to be a perforated left carotid artery caused by a bear, based on Malavolta's injuries and evidence at the scene. Her injuries were not consistent with typical mountain lion attack, Duncan said.

CPW wildlife officers looked for signs of wildlife immediately after recovering Malavolta. They scanned for tracks and scat, and they used hounds to track any wildlife in the area, according to the incident report.

The hounds quickly found the three bears, then continued surveying the area. No signs of other predators, including mountain lions, were found.

The wildlife officer set up multiple game cameras and left them up for more than 24 hours after the attack. No lions returned to the area, Duncan said.

“There’s no evidence of a mountain lion being involved in the attack,” said Chris Burke, spokesman for La Plata County Sheriff’s Office. “There are mountain lions in the area, one in particular that the DOW is aware of and are trying to capture, but it wasn’t in the same vicinity of the attack.”

DNA evidence during the examination of the bears and an injury analysis confirmed the bears were involved. The injuries were not consistent with a mountain lion attack, Duncan said.

“If there were lions in the area, we’re pretty confident that the dogs would’ve found some sign of them,” he said.

CPW emphasized the importance of being bear-aware.

“We really don’t know what happened. It’s just a tragic accident,” Duncan said.

Bear attacks are considered extremely rare in Colorado. There were about 85 recorded attacks on humans between 1960 and 2020. Three of those were fatal. Malavolta’s death is the fourth fatal attack in the same time range, according to CPW records.

An experienced and knowledgeable operator in the backcountry, Malavolta’s “greatest joy” was to be outdoors, according to a statement from Malavolta’s family.

“While Laney’s physical presence was suddenly taken from this earth, all that know and love her can take comfort; Laney’s soul will live forever in her favorite place, doing her favorite thing,” the family’s statement said. “She would not have wanted it any other way.”
https://www.the-journal.com/articles/no ... port-says/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.
I am not anti hunt. I used to hunt a lot when I was younger. Not sure as it's never happened before. Back in the day there were unlimited lion hunts and they were almost hunted into extinction around these parts.

In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59

Then there's me and a friend back in the late 70's with our javelina I shot. Back when were were invincible and hungry. And the dang little pecc - a - ry deserved it. hehe
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
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Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.
I am not anti hunt. I used to hunt a lot when I was younger. Not sure as it's never happened before. Back in the day there were unlimited lion hunts and they were almost hunted into extinction around these parts.

In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59
I get you. Just the balance is working to restore/manage the population with the current model and limited tags. An outright ban would be fixing something that’s not broken. The same group trying a ban in CO is targeting AZ. They are also trying to ban bear hunting in AZ, but not in CO. So that’s interesting.

How was the javelina?

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
I get you. Just the balance is working to restore/manage the population with the current model and limited tags. An outright ban would be fixing something that’s not broken. The same group trying a ban in CO is targeting AZ. They are also trying to ban bear hunting in AZ, but not in CO. So that’s interesting.

How was the javelina?
My guess is those people like kitty kats more than bears.

The javelina was a little tough. But with enough bacon on it tastes good.

I heard people in Texas are capturing wild boars and fattening them up for slaughter. Sounds like a great idea. But not for javelina. F'rs are mean as shit.
That one there I got when we rounded a bend and spooked a herd, this one came a charging and I dropped it ten ft away with my 30-30.
Scared the crap outa me.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:42 am
In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59
I was able to take a look at your link finally. This is good information for those who may not understand hunting's use and impact as a conservation tool. The "harvest threshold", as I understand it, is the maximum number of animals that can be harvested without a negative impact and therefor the maximum number of tags to be issued. Or to look at it another way, it could be the number of animals that should be harvested to keep the population in the area below carrying capacity.

The number of animals actually harvested is dwarfed by the threshold of how many can be harvested, much less the number of animals there are in that unit. The closest number harvested to the threshold is 21 out of 32. That means of the animals available for harvest (NOT the total number of animals in the unit) or of the animals designated needing to be culled, only 2/3 were harvested. More often, it is closer to 1/3 or maybe one half. In some units it was only 10% or even zero.

It's not the case that some forest ranger licks his finger, holds it into the wind and says, "Yeah, go ahead and kill lions" and hunters run in, guns-a-blazing. Or that the only thing stopping animals from being killed is the absolute limit of tags. It's a carefully measured process.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A Timeline of the American Bison

1500s An estimated 30-60 million bison roam North America, mostly on the great plains.
1830 Mass destruction of the bison begins.
1860 Construction of the railroad accelerates human settlement and killing of bison.
1870 An estimated 2 million are killed on southern plains in one year.
1872-1874 An average of 5000 bison were killed every day of these three years. That’s 5.4 million bison killed in 3 years.
1884 The bison population reaches it’s lowest point. Around 325 wild bison are left in the United States – including 24 in Yellowstone.
1910 Due to conservation efforts, bison increase to 1,000 in the US.
2017 Today there are 500,000 bison in the US, including 5,000 in Yellowstone.
What disease are the cattle ranchers concerned about?

Up to 60% of Yellowstone bison test positive for brucellosis, which ironically, the bison got from cattle in the early 1900s. Brucellosis has been mostly eliminated from cattle across the US, but persists in the Yellowstone ecosystem’s bison and elk.
https://www.flatcreekinn.com/bison-americas-mammal/

Humans came and propagated and homes, towns, cities and states. Bison get culled annually to keep the herds manageable.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:07 pm And the government waged a war on predators by poison bait. Shooting them from choppers for decades.
Didn't stop ole wiley coyote, but decimatedthe wolf population. It just killed more critters up and down the food chain.
So I just can't give the .gov a pass on any management policy.
I tend to agree.

I’m also not clear on the government’s criteria. Habitat is destroyed just to make room for more us. Perhaps the we in society should include all animals.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:04 pm CO SB 22-031, bill to ban hunting of mountain lion, bobcat, or lynx as a means of population management. The latter of which is already outlawed. More social pressure instead of science for conservation decisions. The same week as a starving mountain lion goes into a Vail condo complex.
Mountain lions are starving because HUMANS have encroached on their typical habitat. There wouldn't be so many starving deer if the natural predator's environment wasn't gooned up by humans.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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F4FEver wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:29 am
58Hawken wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:04 pm CO SB 22-031, bill to ban hunting of mountain lion, bobcat, or lynx as a means of population management. The latter of which is already outlawed. More social pressure instead of science for conservation decisions. The same week as a starving mountain lion goes into a Vail condo complex.
Mountain lions are starving because HUMANS have encroached on their typical habitat. There wouldn't be so many starving deer if the natural predator's environment wasn't gooned up by humans.
Which is way you leave these decisions up to wildlife biologists. Not by popular ballot (requiring wolf reintroduction without any allocated budget to do so), and not by state legislatures being pressured from out of state social organizations with an outright ban taking biologists' input out of the equation.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A dog owner in Nederland (mountain town above Boulder) shot one attacking his dog recently. No charges were pressed and from what I've heard Parks and Wildlife raised then released the kits back into the "wild" in Nederland.

I would hardly describe the front range of Colorado as being ideal deer or cougar habitat. The human habitation is actually very high, not housing developments but old roads that now have houses up and down them as well as lots with long drives further back. There is actually very little area that is not heavily trafficked by people recreating, living, and with pets. What looks like forested mountains is actually many many houses.

Cougars do amazingly well for a large predator in a place with no actual real habitat that isn't heavily human dominated. There is a constant overpopulation, and not one cougar has been taken by hunting in a long time here. Most of the excess is driven off to disperse and get hit by cars etc. Bears are less of a success story as they are omnivores and natural garbage pickers. Bears are able to obtain high calorie food from humans, and they use that food to fatten up and hibernate. Bird feeders, trash cans, cars. The close proximity causes some bears to lose their natural shyness around people.

I think most "management" of large carnivores around here is done by wildlife managers with very little publicity. They know the signs of when a bear or cat is getting too adapted to humans and they cull it. It will be quite a while before wolves spread to the resort mountain towns but I'd suspect that similar to most other place the bloom will fall off the rose quickly. Polling before and after wolves shows a big drop off in appreciation.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tagsoup wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 11:29 am I would hardly describe the front range of Colorado as being ideal deer or cougar habitat. The human habitation is actually very high, not housing developments but old roads that now have houses up and down them as well as lots with long drives further back. There is actually very little area that is not heavily trafficked by people recreating, living, and with pets. What looks like forested mountains is actually many many houses.
The area of concern, IMO, is when there is an increase in human contact in previously human populated areas. When it's new houses, duh, the lions were there first. Humans just got there. But when we're getting more cats moving into Longmont, Lakewood, etc. that have been developed cities for a hundred years, something is going on.
Cougars do amazingly well for a large predator in a place with no actual real habitat that isn't heavily human dominated. There is a constant overpopulation, and not one cougar has been taken by hunting in a long time here. Most of the excess is driven off to disperse and get hit by cars etc.
Source on those statements? Below are the CPW harvest stats.
https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Page ... stics.aspx
I think most "management" of large carnivores around here is done by wildlife managers with very little publicity. They know the signs of when a bear or cat is getting too adapted to humans and they cull it.
That's where I say the wildlife biologists and managers know best about how to handle this. Urban non-hunters are the last people to be making carte blanche regulations.
Polling before and after wolves shows a big drop off in appreciation.
LOL, that's hilarious. But it tracks. Look at how many people who "move out to the country" or the mountains then move back around a year later (it's a stat). Louis CK has a great routine about how people go from thinking deer are magical creatures whose presence you are blessed with to spot them in their natural habitat to being "rats with hooves" once people have to deal with them in their back yards.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:44 am
tagsoup wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 11:29 am I would hardly describe the front range of Colorado as being ideal deer or cougar habitat. The human habitation is actually very high, not housing developments but old roads that now have houses up and down them as well as lots with long drives further back. There is actually very little area that is not heavily trafficked by people recreating, living, and with pets. What looks like forested mountains is actually many many houses.
The area of concern, IMO, is when there is an increase in human contact in previously human populated areas. When it's new houses, duh, the lions were there first. Humans just got there. But when we're getting more cats moving into Longmont, Lakewood, etc. that have been developed cities for a hundred years, something is going on.
Cougars do amazingly well for a large predator in a place with no actual real habitat that isn't heavily human dominated. There is a constant overpopulation, and not one cougar has been taken by hunting in a long time here. Most of the excess is driven off to disperse and get hit by cars etc.
Source on those statements? Below are the CPW harvest stats.
https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Page ... stics.aspx
I think most "management" of large carnivores around here is done by wildlife managers with very little publicity. They know the signs of when a bear or cat is getting too adapted to humans and they cull it.
That's where I say the wildlife biologists and managers know best about how to handle this. Urban non-hunters are the last people to be making carte blanche regulations.
Polling before and after wolves shows a big drop off in appreciation.
LOL, that's hilarious. But it tracks. Look at how many people who "move out to the country" or the mountains then move back around a year later (it's a stat). Louis CK has a great routine about how people go from thinking deer are magical creatures whose presence you are blessed with to spot them in their natural habitat to being "rats with hooves" once people have to deal with them in their back yards.
We moved "out to the country" about a decade ago, and don't regret the choice a bit. Lots of deer, some bears, occasional bobcat, skunk, squirrel, opossum, coon, oh yes, a clowder of cats. Even the occasional human.

People from the "city", please stay home. It's you I came here to get away from.
Getting old, or is it just me?

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A really big Bobcat has been seen in this area and was finally trapped and euthanized. But the saddest part is it was severely malnourished and had been declawed, It was likely someones pet they tired of and abandoned and without claws was simply unable to hunt for food or climb trees.

We also hear coyotes many evenings.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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sig230 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:04 am A really big Bobcat has been seen in this area and was finally trapped and euthanized. But the saddest part is it was severely malnourished and had been declawed, It was likely someones pet they tired of and abandoned and without claws was simply unable to hunt for food or climb trees.

We also hear coyotes many evenings.
That’s just sick! Sad.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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sig230 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:04 am A really big Bobcat has been seen in this area and was finally trapped and euthanized. But the saddest part is it was severely malnourished and had been declawed, It was likely someones pet they tired of and abandoned and without claws was simply unable to hunt for food or climb trees.

We also hear coyotes many evenings.
I hope they find out who did that and put them in a cage with no food, just water.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

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