Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:06 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:02 pm They're not going to let mountain lions hunt? How they gonna do that? :)
Universal background checks.
Have to register their paw prints.
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
I Have Seen The Enemy And It Is Us

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A famous youtube influencer of things spiritual was looking for an apprentice. Two youngsters applied, and he gave each one a mountain lion cub and a large knife. He instructed them to go and kill the cub where no one would see. The first kid went behind the garage and killed the cub. The second kid did not return for three days. He came back carrying the cub, alive. When asked why he did not kill the cub, the kid said, "the cub sees."

The influencer chose the one kid and rejected the other.

CDFingers
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If I had a gun for every ace I've drawn
I could arm a town the size of Zhytomyr

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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Just last summer in So Cal.
A California woman has been called “a hero” by state officials after she fought off a mountain lion with her bare hands after it attacked her 5-year-old son.

The boy was playing by a tree near his home in Calabasas, west of Los Angeles, on Thursday morning when a 65-pound mountain lion attacked him, according to the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. Department spokesman Patrick Foy told the Associated Press the mountain lion “dragged him about 45 yards" before his mother, came to the rescue.

"She ran out of the house and started punching and striking the mountain lion with her bare hands and got him off her son," Foy said. "The true hero of this story is his mom because she absolutely saved her son’s life."

Foy told CBSLA the boy's mother noticed the attack when she heard her son screaming. He added the boy suffered traumatic injuries to his head and torso and was taken to a children's hospital in Los Angeles.

After law enforcement was notified of the attack, wildlife officials went to the family's home when an officer noticed an "aggressive" mountain lion in the corner of the property. Officials said because of the mountain lion's behavior and location, they, "believed it was likely the attacking lion and to protect public safety, shot and killed it" on the property, which evidence proved to be true.

"Wildlife Forensics Scientists analyzed samples from underneath the claws of the suspect lion carcass and isolated traces of human tissue and blood with a DNA profile that matched the young victim," the department said in the statement. "Results were conclusive that it was the attacking lion that was shot by the wildlife officer on scene."

Shortly after the suspected mountain lion was killed, two more mountain lions, including one full-grown adult with a radio collar and one similar to the deceased lion, appeared.

Citing safety concerns, officials used a nonlethal tranquilizer on the uncollared, similar mountain lion. After confirming the tranquilized mountain lion was not involved in the attack, it was released back into the wild.

The size of the deceased mountain lion indicated it was a kitten born less than one year ago, according to officials. Experts told CBSLA the attack might have happened because the boy was small and the mountain lion is still trying to learn how to hunt for food.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 643763001/


Not just mountain lions, a Colorado woman was killed by bears last year.
A Colorado Parks and Wildlife incident report confirmed that bears were the only animals involved in a fatal attack on a 39-year-old Durango woman April 30.

Laney Malavolta was found dead in a wooded area north of Durango and near Trimble Lane (County Road 252). The subsequent investigation concluded that a sow and two cubs were responsible for her death, based on information gathered from the initial CPW investigation and autopsy and necropsy results.

In the weeks after Malavolta’s death, rumors grew in La Plata County that a mountain lion might have been involved in the attack.

“We are aware there are some folks that might think that,” said Travis Duncan, CPW spokesman.

But investigators found no evidence that a mountain lion was in the area, he said.

“We think why that rumor might be popping up is because the body was cached,” or partially buried in debris, Duncan said.

Mountain lions frequently cast plant life and dirt over prey to hide it, then return later. Black bears show the same behavior, although it is not as common as with mountain lions.

The cause of death was determined to be a perforated left carotid artery caused by a bear, based on Malavolta's injuries and evidence at the scene. Her injuries were not consistent with typical mountain lion attack, Duncan said.

CPW wildlife officers looked for signs of wildlife immediately after recovering Malavolta. They scanned for tracks and scat, and they used hounds to track any wildlife in the area, according to the incident report.

The hounds quickly found the three bears, then continued surveying the area. No signs of other predators, including mountain lions, were found.

The wildlife officer set up multiple game cameras and left them up for more than 24 hours after the attack. No lions returned to the area, Duncan said.

“There’s no evidence of a mountain lion being involved in the attack,” said Chris Burke, spokesman for La Plata County Sheriff’s Office. “There are mountain lions in the area, one in particular that the DOW is aware of and are trying to capture, but it wasn’t in the same vicinity of the attack.”

DNA evidence during the examination of the bears and an injury analysis confirmed the bears were involved. The injuries were not consistent with a mountain lion attack, Duncan said.

“If there were lions in the area, we’re pretty confident that the dogs would’ve found some sign of them,” he said.

CPW emphasized the importance of being bear-aware.

“We really don’t know what happened. It’s just a tragic accident,” Duncan said.

Bear attacks are considered extremely rare in Colorado. There were about 85 recorded attacks on humans between 1960 and 2020. Three of those were fatal. Malavolta’s death is the fourth fatal attack in the same time range, according to CPW records.

An experienced and knowledgeable operator in the backcountry, Malavolta’s “greatest joy” was to be outdoors, according to a statement from Malavolta’s family.

“While Laney’s physical presence was suddenly taken from this earth, all that know and love her can take comfort; Laney’s soul will live forever in her favorite place, doing her favorite thing,” the family’s statement said. “She would not have wanted it any other way.”
https://www.the-journal.com/articles/no ... port-says/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm Mountain lions and humans co-exist here just fine. There is no less than 30 mountain lions at any one time in the Catalina mountain range. Yes, they come into town to get water or if there's a fire which there was, twice in the last ten years.
Do pets nget eaten? Yes. Especially the pets living on the border of forest service land. No biggie, hardly a handful and well, coulda been Wily Coyote too.
No humans yet,
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.
I am not anti hunt. I used to hunt a lot when I was younger. Not sure as it's never happened before. Back in the day there were unlimited lion hunts and they were almost hunted into extinction around these parts.

In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59

Then there's me and a friend back in the late 70's with our javelina I shot. Back when were were invincible and hungry. And the dang little pecc - a - ry deserved it. hehe
I Have Seen The Enemy And It Is Us
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Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
tonguengroover wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:47 pm
In AZ? Wonder how “just fine” will look if the group succeeds as banning hunting as a conservation tool.
I am not anti hunt. I used to hunt a lot when I was younger. Not sure as it's never happened before. Back in the day there were unlimited lion hunts and they were almost hunted into extinction around these parts.

In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59
I get you. Just the balance is working to restore/manage the population with the current model and limited tags. An outright ban would be fixing something that’s not broken. The same group trying a ban in CO is targeting AZ. They are also trying to ban bear hunting in AZ, but not in CO. So that’s interesting.

How was the javelina?

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:11 am
I get you. Just the balance is working to restore/manage the population with the current model and limited tags. An outright ban would be fixing something that’s not broken. The same group trying a ban in CO is targeting AZ. They are also trying to ban bear hunting in AZ, but not in CO. So that’s interesting.

How was the javelina?
My guess is those people like kitty kats more than bears.

The javelina was a little tough. But with enough bacon on it tastes good.

I heard people in Texas are capturing wild boars and fattening them up for slaughter. Sounds like a great idea. But not for javelina. F'rs are mean as shit.
That one there I got when we rounded a bend and spooked a herd, this one came a charging and I dropped it ten ft away with my 30-30.
Scared the crap outa me.
I Have Seen The Enemy And It Is Us

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:42 am
In the link you can see the amount of lions to be taken. I am in unit 33 and these six units have the most lions allowed to be taken. https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon ... 220104.pdf 28, 31, 32, 33, 37A, 37B, 38M 59
I was able to take a look at your link finally. This is good information for those who may not understand hunting's use and impact as a conservation tool. The "harvest threshold", as I understand it, is the maximum number of animals that can be harvested without a negative impact and therefor the maximum number of tags to be issued. Or to look at it another way, it could be the number of animals that should be harvested to keep the population in the area below carrying capacity.

The number of animals actually harvested is dwarfed by the threshold of how many can be harvested, much less the number of animals there are in that unit. The closest number harvested to the threshold is 21 out of 32. That means of the animals available for harvest (NOT the total number of animals in the unit) or of the animals designated needing to be culled, only 2/3 were harvested. More often, it is closer to 1/3 or maybe one half. In some units it was only 10% or even zero.

It's not the case that some forest ranger licks his finger, holds it into the wind and says, "Yeah, go ahead and kill lions" and hunters run in, guns-a-blazing. Or that the only thing stopping animals from being killed is the absolute limit of tags. It's a carefully measured process.

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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A Timeline of the American Bison

1500s An estimated 30-60 million bison roam North America, mostly on the great plains.
1830 Mass destruction of the bison begins.
1860 Construction of the railroad accelerates human settlement and killing of bison.
1870 An estimated 2 million are killed on southern plains in one year.
1872-1874 An average of 5000 bison were killed every day of these three years. That’s 5.4 million bison killed in 3 years.
1884 The bison population reaches it’s lowest point. Around 325 wild bison are left in the United States – including 24 in Yellowstone.
1910 Due to conservation efforts, bison increase to 1,000 in the US.
2017 Today there are 500,000 bison in the US, including 5,000 in Yellowstone.
What disease are the cattle ranchers concerned about?

Up to 60% of Yellowstone bison test positive for brucellosis, which ironically, the bison got from cattle in the early 1900s. Brucellosis has been mostly eliminated from cattle across the US, but persists in the Yellowstone ecosystem’s bison and elk.
https://www.flatcreekinn.com/bison-americas-mammal/

Humans came and propagated and homes, towns, cities and states. Bison get culled annually to keep the herds manageable.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colorado Senate Bill to Ban Mountain Lion Hunting

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tonguengroover wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:07 pm And the government waged a war on predators by poison bait. Shooting them from choppers for decades.
Didn't stop ole wiley coyote, but decimatedthe wolf population. It just killed more critters up and down the food chain.
So I just can't give the .gov a pass on any management policy.
I tend to agree.

I’m also not clear on the government’s criteria. Habitat is destroyed just to make room for more us. Perhaps the we in society should include all animals.
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