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jc57 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:51 pm I am still astounded by how many people (politicians and regular people) still are 100% behind the former president. What kind of strange hold does he have over them? I would have thought honorable, principled people like Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney would be in the majority instead of being ostracized by their own party.

I don't agree with most of their political views, but they fall under the category of "respected opposition" rather than insane autocrat worshippers. I can usually put myself in someone else's shoes enough to at least understand their point of view from their perspective, but I can't do that with staunch Trump supporters. It is like they are under the thrall of a charismatic cult leader.
Agree.
Hard to imagine hillibilly folk falling for some New York City real-estate hustler. But it happened.
TOTSZKY knows his talking points and really relates to them because of his elementary speech patterns conjoined with white supremacist subliminal hate speech.
What those black people in the background of his rallies think they are doing. Hope they get their paycheck. Its disgusting.
Adventurous Dog

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Stockholm syndrome in a mass scale? Their childhood religions have already conditioned them to receive abuse and to worship a patriarchal figure who looks down on them. As long as they belong to some group with compensatory displays of power, they feel more safe to channel their fear/rage onto the appropriate Outsider. They are willing to serve a “higher” cause and be fleeced in the process.

Fascism has always operated like that: on the backs of the fearful.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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No Stockholm syndrome, this is purely the result indoctrination into my country right or wrong and the USA is always right. Most of our country is blind to our flaws while we easily see the same flaws in other countries. It’s happening right now in international politics, yet we see no flaws in our actions. Why are y’all surprised the same flaw exists in our internal politics.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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Gabriel Lenz, an expert in political psychology, is the author of Follow the Leader? How Voters Respond to Politicians’ Performance and Policies (University of Chicago Press, 2012). He sees political opinion shaped by a force that is almost prosaic: an apathetic lack of awareness. Many people follow a political party as they would a football team, researchers say. Values may be less important in shaping allegiance than family tradition or the shared identity and social pressures of a community.

Most low-engagement voters simply follow the cues of their preferred party leaders. If a popular leader fans division, they polarize. If the leader appeals to emotions such as sadness or anger, their passions are aroused. Lenz and other political scientists call it “rational ignorance.”“It’s hard for political junkies to believe,” Lenz said, “but most people have much better things to do with their lives than pay attention to politics. If you ask, ‘How, after the last four years, could people want more of this?’, well, people are partisan. The country is polarized. And it’s not clear that people are paying much attention to the details.” Despite reams of journalism exploring the impact of Fox News and the right-wing media ecosystem, Lenz said, relatively few people actually tune in. In fact, people often don’t understand politics or policy well at all.

He points to 2018 research co-authored by Douglas J. Ahler, a former Berkeley Ph.D. student now on the faculty at Florida State University. The research concluded that many voters don’t grasp even the basic character of Republicans and Democrats. “People make large, systematic errors when judging party composition,” Ahler wrote with co-author Gaurav Sood, an independent social scientist. “For instance, Americans believe that 32% of Democrats are gay, lesbian or bisexual (only 6.3% are, in reality), and that 38% of Republicans earn over $250,000 per year (just 2.2% do, in reality).” Further, they wrote, Republicans substantially overestimate the proportion of Democrats who are Black people, or atheists; Democrats significantly overestimate the number of Republicans who are over 65. Such basic misconceptions can amplify Democrat-Republican tensions, driving politics that may be guided more by dislike of the other team than reasoned evaluation of issues. “The democratic freedoms and values that we have in this country — that’s not something that people think about on a daily basis,” Lenz explained.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/12/07/de ... loyal-why/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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sikacz wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:26 pm No Stockholm syndrome, this is purely the result indoctrination into my country right or wrong and the USA is always right. Most of our country is blind to our flaws while we easily see the same flaws in other countries. It’s happening right now in international politics, yet we see no flaws in our actions. Why are y’all surprised the same flaw exists in our internal politics.
Don't include me in your "y'all". Being of the 'Silent Generation' between Greatest and Boomers, I learned during my foreign working, living and traveling the flaws, warts and all that most Americans ignore or don't even know exist - this at a relatively young stage in my life (late 20's to 40's). Traveling internationally was without a doubt an eye opener when discussing things with others not American. Also, sobering as to the amount of bullshit we seem to spread so freely. I love this country dearly, but I'm deeply disappointed we are where we are now - and it's the most hopeless feeling I've ever encounter.

On the other hand, I would, seriously, in a nano-second trade/swap the entire Turd family for Finland's Sanna Marin family !! LOL She joins Jacinda Ardern of NZ in my highest esteem and respect - both young and vibrant - how refreshing that.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Wino wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:49 am
sikacz wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:26 pm No Stockholm syndrome, this is purely the result indoctrination into my country right or wrong and the USA is always right. Most of our country is blind to our flaws while we easily see the same flaws in other countries. It’s happening right now in international politics, yet we see no flaws in our actions. Why are y’all surprised the same flaw exists in our internal politics.
Don't include me in your "y'all". Being of the 'Silent Generation' between Greatest and Boomers, I learned during my foreign working, living and traveling the flaws, warts and all that most Americans ignore or don't even know exist - this at a relatively young stage in my life (late 20's to 40's). Traveling internationally was without a doubt an eye opener when discussing things with others not American. Also, sobering as to the amount of bullshit we seem to spread so freely. I love this country dearly, but I'm deeply disappointed we are where we are now - and it's the most hopeless feeling I've ever encounter.

On the other hand, I would, seriously, in a nano-second trade/swap the entire Turd family for Finland's Sanna Marin family !! LOL She joins Jacinda Ardern of NZ in my highest esteem and respect - both young and vibrant - how refreshing that.
I feel ya, bro.

I notice in myself two ways of viewing things. First, freedom is untidy--from the Bush II era. People will do all kinds of shit. I think that's a natural thing with humans, so over the millennia we've developed various ways of regulating or mitigating the shit we may or may not do. Second, governments are instituted among people to regulate and mitigate our tendencies freely to do shit. Some things like going 90 in a residential zone are illegal. This is as it should be. Always there will be tension between what we want and what we will allow to take place lawfully.

Democracy is a messy business--the republic, more so.

CDFingers
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Baio, Baio, tell me how can this be?
You arrest the girls for turning tricks, but you're scared of Staggerlee

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CDFingers wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:13 pm
Wino wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:49 am
sikacz wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:26 pm No Stockholm syndrome, this is purely the result indoctrination into my country right or wrong and the USA is always right. Most of our country is blind to our flaws while we easily see the same flaws in other countries. It’s happening right now in international politics, yet we see no flaws in our actions. Why are y’all surprised the same flaw exists in our internal politics.
Don't include me in your "y'all". Being of the 'Silent Generation' between Greatest and Boomers, I learned during my foreign working, living and traveling the flaws, warts and all that most Americans ignore or don't even know exist - this at a relatively young stage in my life (late 20's to 40's). Traveling internationally was without a doubt an eye opener when discussing things with others not American. Also, sobering as to the amount of bullshit we seem to spread so freely. I love this country dearly, but I'm deeply disappointed we are where we are now - and it's the most hopeless feeling I've ever encounter.

On the other hand, I would, seriously, in a nano-second trade/swap the entire Turd family for Finland's Sanna Marin family !! LOL She joins Jacinda Ardern of NZ in my highest esteem and respect - both young and vibrant - how refreshing that.
I feel ya, bro.

I notice in myself two ways of viewing things. First, freedom is untidy--from the Bush II era. People will do all kinds of shit. I think that's a natural thing with humans, so over the millennia we've developed various ways of regulating or mitigating the shit we may or may not do. Second, governments are instituted among people to regulate and mitigate our tendencies freely to do shit. Some things like going 90 in a residential zone are illegal. This is as it should be. Always there will be tension between what we want and what we will allow to take place lawfully.

Democracy is a messy business--the republic, more so.

CDFingers
My apologies to both of y’all and a few others. I get pissed and when I do I often make the mistake of generalizing . I was born overseas, naturalized, then lived back in Finland again for near a decade. The folly of some of my fellow Americans is pretty glaring. That said, I fully recognize the exceptions and more of them are here than anyplace else in my travels.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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The advantages of being born White Indo-European in America is that you can afford to be vocally angry at the insanity (or inanity) that some Americans display. We Asians have learned to swallow our pride and remain quiet. Asians with darker skin observing particular religious dress (like turbans covering long hair) have certainly learned to quietly respect ignorance in this country the way people avoid the attention of rabid dogs.

It is important that White Americans stand up and strongly denounce the ignorance they see. The Asians cannot always do that but we quietly do what we can in support of sanity from the sidelines.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Bisbee wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:13 pm......................................................It is important that White Americans stand up and strongly denounce the ignorance they see. The Asians cannot always do that but we quietly do what we can in support of sanity from the sidelines.
Michelle Malkin blows that theory outta the water, my friend !! LOL
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Bisbee wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:13 pm The advantages of being born White Indo-European in America is that you can afford to be vocally angry at the insanity (or inanity) that some Americans display. We Asians have learned to swallow our pride and remain quiet. Asians with darker skin observing particular religious dress (like turbans covering long hair) have certainly learned to quietly respect ignorance in this country the way people avoid the attention of rabid dogs.

It is important that White Americans stand up and strongly denounce the ignorance they see. The Asians cannot always do that but we quietly do what we can in support of sanity from the sidelines.
Cool, I’m not indo-european. I know you meant me, but get it straight, not every European originates from the same ethnic group just like all Asians are not from the same ethnic origin. There are some Asians that are lot paler than me. Skin color is a minuscule part of our DNA. If you want someone to support your positions, work to support theirs and don’t immediately classify them as somehow advantaged. I can absolutely say prejudice and all that comes with it is not limited to just people with darker skin tones. Also characterizing my position as being in the sidelines because I won’t support either of the asshole parties is pretty shitty.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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In the PA US Senate race, Republican Mehmet Oz is seen as the carpetbagger from New Jersey and a lazy campaigner anointed by Trump, but his Democratic opponent John Fetterman isn't untarnished. Fetterman portrays himself as a working class stiff, but he comes from a very wealthy family that supported him financially until he was almost 50 with an MBA from UCONN and an MPP from Harvard. Fetterman is running ahead in the polls.
https://archive.ph/0SSyf
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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If Trump falls down an elevator shaft before 2024, two Republican governors with contrasting styles are available.
Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis are two of the biggest names in Republican politics. But they're taking markedly different approaches toward campaigning in the midterms — and perhaps to 2024. Youngkin is bypassing MAGA-oriented gubernatorial candidates in favor of pragmatists running tough races in blue states. DeSantis has leaned into some of the party's most controversial nominees. DeSantis has campaigned for 7 Senate or gubernatorial candidates this year. Six of them are Trump-endorsed.

Youngkin has helped out, or is planning to help out, 10 GOP gubernatorial candidates. Just 3 of them have Trump's backing, and 8 of the 10 are running in states that President Biden carried in 2020. Youngkin is only campaigning for one incumbent governor — Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, who Trump worked against during the primary. There's only one gubernatorial candidate with committed support from both DeSantis and Youngkin: New Mexico's Mark Ronchetti, whom Trump has not endorsed.

DeSantis in August campaigned for several Trump-endorsed nominees, including Senate candidates J.D. Vance in Ohio and Blake Masters in Arizona.He also hit the trail for Pennsylvania gubernatorial nominee Doug Mastriano — whom the Republican Governors Association (RGA) has declined to back — as well as Kari Lake in Arizona. Youngkin's announced campaign swing doesn't include Arizona, where Lake is locked in a close contest. He's also poised to skip Pennsylvania, where Trump on Saturday will hold his first general election rally of 2022.
Youngkin political adviser Kristin Davison told Axios: "He's excited to bring the spirit of Virginia to swing states that look a lot like Virginia did last year, turn blue states' culture of defeat into a spirit of winning, and help flip these purple and blue states red." If Youngkin helps elect Republican governors in blue states like New Mexico and Oregon, while Trump and DeSantis' candidates in redder states fall to defeat, it would send a powerful message that Youngkin's mainstream conservative message is a winning one for the party.
https://www.axios.com/2022/09/02/youngk ... icans-2024
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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DeSatan is endorsing the hard right wing candidates and hoping they win and will endorse him for the Presidential run instead of TOS.DeSatan is already showing his true colors of extreme rightwing fascist authoritarian behavior in Florida. He is showing his true intentions by starting with the schools and banning books and limiting what can be taught to only conform to Right Wing Ideology.

https://www.alternet.org/2022/09/ron-de ... far-right/
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man.
attributed to St. Ignatius Loyola and also to Aristotle.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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Raised in a strong Southern Baptist family, I was able to realize as I aged that organized religion was bullshit and there was no vengeful god that was going to strike me dead nor was hair going to grow in my hand palm. If one can break that chain, then they can leave MAGA, too. I know, terrible analogy, but people CAN if they want, change - after all, we supposedly have free will. It helps drastically if you're not gullible. LOL
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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This is the real issue, but because all major media outlets are themselves owned and controlled by oligarchs, more than half of whom are neoliberals, who care only for the optics of liberalism as opposed to the actual ideas, of liberalism which are to flatten the wealth inequality curve and even out the challenges of the poor.
Today, half of our people live paycheck to paycheck and millions struggle on starvation wages. Despite a lifetime of work, half of older Americans have no savings and no idea how they will ever be able to retire with dignity, while 55% of seniors are trying to survive on an income of less than $25,000 a year.

Since 1975, there has been a massive redistribution of wealth in America that has gone in exactly the wrong direction. Over the past 47 years, according to the Rand Corporation, $50tn in wealth has been redistributed from the bottom 90% of American society to the top 1%, primarily because a growing percentage of corporate profits has been flowing into the stock portfolios of the wealthy and the powerful.

During this terrible pandemic, when thousands of essential workers died doing their jobs, some 700 billionaires in America became nearly $2tn richer. Today, while the working class falls further behind, multibillionaires like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson are off taking joyrides on rocket ships to outer space, buying $500m super-yachts and living in mansions with 25 bathrooms.

Disgracefully, we now have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any developed nation on Earth and millions of kids, disproportionately Black and brown, face food insecurity. While psychologists tell us that the first four years are the most important for human development, our childcare system is largely dysfunctional—with an inadequate number of slots, outrageously high costs and pathetically low wages for staff. We remain the only major country without paid family and medical leave.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022 ... -oligarchs

The oligarch media will not show this to the average viewer. We have to share this information with voters. Glad beer exists.

CDFingers
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Baio, Baio, tell me how can this be?
You arrest the girls for turning tricks, but you're scared of Staggerlee

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:05 am This is the real issue, but because all major media outlets are themselves owned and controlled by oligarchs, more than half of whom are neoliberals, who care only for the optics of liberalism as opposed to the actual ideas, of liberalism which are to flatten the wealth inequality curve and even out the challenges of the poor.
Today, half of our people live paycheck to paycheck and millions struggle on starvation wages. Despite a lifetime of work, half of older Americans have no savings and no idea how they will ever be able to retire with dignity, while 55% of seniors are trying to survive on an income of less than $25,000 a year.

Since 1975, there has been a massive redistribution of wealth in America that has gone in exactly the wrong direction. Over the past 47 years, according to the Rand Corporation, $50tn in wealth has been redistributed from the bottom 90% of American society to the top 1%, primarily because a growing percentage of corporate profits has been flowing into the stock portfolios of the wealthy and the powerful.

During this terrible pandemic, when thousands of essential workers died doing their jobs, some 700 billionaires in America became nearly $2tn richer. Today, while the working class falls further behind, multibillionaires like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Richard Branson are off taking joyrides on rocket ships to outer space, buying $500m super-yachts and living in mansions with 25 bathrooms.

Disgracefully, we now have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any developed nation on Earth and millions of kids, disproportionately Black and brown, face food insecurity. While psychologists tell us that the first four years are the most important for human development, our childcare system is largely dysfunctional—with an inadequate number of slots, outrageously high costs and pathetically low wages for staff. We remain the only major country without paid family and medical leave.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022 ... -oligarchs

The oligarch media will not show this to the average viewer. We have to share this information with voters. Glad beer exists.

CDFingers
This is why I can’t support neoliberals, looking at you joe and crew. Wonder why they want to disarm us, I don’t.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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Now that Dark Brandon has divided the hapless GOP, a strong Dem counter narrative is emerging, laying out a strategy that he and his cult must be "...disempowered politically, legally, financially, and [then] institutionalized."

https://democraticunderground.com/100217120138
Content adapted from https://narcopath.info/about-npd/unders ... narrative/

CDFingers
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Baio, Baio, tell me how can this be?
You arrest the girls for turning tricks, but you're scared of Staggerlee

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9 weeks until the November midterm election. The Senate is still a tossup, but it's looking like Democrats have a chance of holding it because Trump pushed terrible candidates on his party. The Nevada and the Georgia Senate seats are real tossups, polling is within the margin of error. Mehmet Oz was a terrible candidate in PA pushed on Republicans by Trump, he's a lazy campaigner and dubbed a "carpet bagger from New Jersey" by Democrats. No one takes him seriously. His opponent John Fetterman the current Lt Gov of PA plays the "aw shucks I'm just a regular guy", but never worked until he was 50, living living off his family's money according to news sources. Plus he didn't share his medical history - he had a stroke the day before the primary election. Some predictions add in AZ with Dem Mark Kelly who is running for a full term and WI where Rep Ron Johnson is running for reelection.

The House appears lost in most forecasts.

The day after Labor Day starts the final stretch of the campaign season, from now on it's who is leading in the polls and who has the most campaign money to spend on political ads up to election day.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Nate Cohen the polling guru of the New York Times sees signs that there could be the same polling errors in 2022 as we saw in 2016 and 2020.
It raises the possibility that the apparent Democratic strength in Wisconsin and elsewhere is a mirage — an artifact of persistent and unaddressed biases in survey research. If the polls are wrong yet again, it will not be hard to explain. Most pollsters haven’t made significant methodological changes since the last election. The major polling community post-mortem declared that it was “impossible” to definitively ascertain what went wrong in the 2020 election.

The pattern of Democratic strength isn’t the only sign that the polls might still be off in similar ways. Since the Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision on abortion, some pollsters have said they’re seeing the familiar signs of nonresponse bias — when people who don’t respond to a poll are meaningfully different from those who participate — creeping back into their surveys.
The apparent Democratic edge in Senate races in Wisconsin, North Carolina and Ohio would evaporate. To take the chamber, Republicans would need any two of Georgia, Arizona, Nevada or Pennsylvania. With Democrats today well ahead in Pennsylvania and Arizona, the fight for control of the chamber would come down to very close races in Nevada and Georgia.

Regardless of who was favored, the race for Senate control would be extremely competitive. Republican control of the House would seem to be a foregone conclusion.
https://archive.ph/BWYpG
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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I'm optimistic polls are BS and Dems will retain control of House and Senate. I refuse to believe citizens are too stupid to end this winger charade of lawlessness bullshit. I could be wrong, though.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Wino wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:05 pm I'm optimistic polls are BS and Dems will retain control of House and Senate. I refuse to believe citizens are too stupid to end this winger charade of lawlessness bullshit. I could be wrong, though.
I'm inclined to be in this camp as well.

It appears to me that the R's have badly miscalculated. With support for the orange spirochete, sure, but also with today's suggestion that the R Senators will propose a nationwide abortion ban of some kind. Since Dark Brandon laid down the gauntlet, they've not landed a single blow, but Joe is slappin' 'em silly. Add to that Garland's relentless pursuit, and NY and GA after red ass, and those J6 hearings coming up at the end of the month, I think the R's will be out of power for some time, especially if the D's continue to deliver. But I live in a red district of suck, so I may not be rid of R's locally.

CDFingers
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