Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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CDFingers wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:26 am Everyone knows women keep their keys in their purses, even six year olds. So a trigger lock just slowed the kid down for seven minutes while she was in the bathroom. He also should not have known it was on the closet shelf. Pity the fine in VA is only $500 for this.

For the record, my safe is old school tumbler combo, and I'm the only one who knows the combo. My son, over 40 years old, knows where I keep it so he can get my guns when I die, but I did not tell him where it was kept until he was 21.

CDFingers
I didn't know my dad had his S&W 38 that he carried in WWII until I was 16 y.o. even then I had not known that it was in the top shelf of the closet and it was unloaded. Had ammo stored elsewhere.

your son doesn't know the combo of the safe. So he gets the guns but can't get at them.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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TrueTexan wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:21 am
CDFingers wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:26 am Everyone knows women keep their keys in their purses, even six year olds. So a trigger lock just slowed the kid down for seven minutes while she was in the bathroom. He also should not have known it was on the closet shelf. Pity the fine in VA is only $500 for this.

For the record, my safe is old school tumbler combo, and I'm the only one who knows the combo. My son, over 40 years old, knows where I keep it so he can get my guns when I die, but I did not tell him where it was kept until he was 21.

CDFingers
I didn't know my dad had his S&W 38 that he carried in WWII until I was 16 y.o. even then I had not known that it was in the top shelf of the closet and it was unloaded. Had ammo stored elsewhere.

your son doesn't know the combo of the safe. So he gets the guns but can't get at them.
No, I told him where I keep the combo written. He really needs a couple of my rifles. Plus, he doesn't have any revolvers.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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A local prosecutor said Wednesday that he won't charge the 6-year-old boy accused of shooting a teacher at his Virginia elementary school. "We don't believe the law supports charging a 6-year-old with a criminal offense as serious as this one," Newport News Commonwealth's Attorney Howard Gwynn told ABC Hampton, Virginia, affiliate WVEC in a phone call. Gwynn said they would have to show that "any defendant, including a 6-year-old," is competent to stand trial and understands the legal system enough to help with their defense.

"I think it's problematical to assume that a 6-year-old understands the criminal justice system enough to be competent to stand trial," Gwynn told the station. Gwynn added that once his office has reviewed the facts of the case, they will determine if anyone else should be criminally charged in connection with the shooting.
The 6-year-old's family released a statement through a spokesperson in the wake of the incident, saying, "Our family has always been committed to responsible gun ownership and keeping firearms out of the reach of children." "We have been cooperating with local and federal law enforcement to understand how this could have happened," the family said. Their son "suffers from an acute disability and was under a care plan at the school that included his mother or father attending school with him and accompanying him to class every day," the family said. "The week of the shooting was the first week when we were not in class with him. We will regret our absence on this day for the rest of our lives."

Zwerner claimed the student had a history of violent behavior at the school and accused the school's assistant principal of failure to act despite being told repeatedly that the student had a gun at school, her lawyer alleged in a letter notifying the district of the intent to file a lawsuit last month. The student had been suspended the day before the shooting because he "slammed Ms. Zwerner's phone breaking it" and had cursed at the guidance counselors," according to the letter. The student had allegedly been removed from the school a year prior after he "choked his teacher until she couldn't breathe," according to the letter. The school's assistant principal, Ebony Parker, resigned from her position on Jan. 25, according to a school spokesperson.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/prosecutor-ch ... d=97722288
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Of course the child can't be charged, but the mother could be. Parents say the child has a disability, we don't know what it is but there is a difference between a physical or learning disability and a child who is violent and a threat to teachers and other students. The Newport News district board fired the superintendent George Parker, don't know if the schools asst. principal Ebony Parker is any relation, but she resigned and the school's principal was transferred.
Diane Toscano, a lawyer for the wounded teacher, Abby Zwerner, said this week that on the day of the shooting, concerned staff at Richneck warned administrators three times that the boy had a gun and was threatening other students, but the administration didn’t call police, remove the boy from class or lock down the school.
https://apnews.com/article/teaching-edu ... 480fa6ebf0

Shooting a teacher and choking another teacher is very serious. Children can be large for their age, maybe that's the case here. The district and family need to come up with a new plan to educated him.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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If the lawyer is correct the authorities were notified the chid has a gun and did nothing they shoals be held personally liable for a lawsuit and fired from their jobs along with losing their education teaching certifications and license credentials.

As for the child, from his history that has been published, I would bet he will be diagnose as a true sociopath. That is a person which has no sense of the difference between right and wrong. This was according to a psychiatrist, I listen to when doing my psych rotation in nursing school, at the locked unit of the county hospital. The case they had, was a 12 year old boy that had similar behaviors, only he tried to burn his baby sister by lighting her crib on fire among other anti-social behaviors. When asked what happens to him? She stated at this time, he will be incarcerated at the state mental health hospital and my be there the rest of his life for the protection of others. This was 50+ years ago so hopefully there is better treatments now.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The mother of the 6-year-old boy who shot a Richneck Elementary School teacher earlier this year was indicted by a grand jury in Newport News on Monday, the city's Commonwealth's Attorney's Office announced. Deja Taylor was charged with felony child neglect and a misdemeanor count of recklessly leaving a firearm that endangers a child.

The boy shot first-grade teacher Abby Zwerner on January 6 inside her classroom at Richneck Elementary School. Police said Taylor legally purchased the gun and her attorney, James Ellenson, has said the gun was secured on a top shelf in her closet and had a trigger lock. Ellenson said Monday that his client plans to turn herself in later this week. "I wish to thank the NN Commonwealth Attorney's office for extending me the courtesy of informing us of the indictments that were returned by the Grand Jury today," Ellenson said in a statement to ABC News. "My client will be turning herself in later this week. More details will follow."

The charges come after an investigation by the Newport News Police Department and the city's Commonwealth's Attorney's Office. The office said it "determined that the facts and the law" support charges against Taylor for those two offenses. "Every criminal case is unique in its facts, and these faces support these charges, but our investigation into the shooting continues," Commonwealth's Attorney Howard Gwynn wrote. Gwynn also announced that he filed a petition in Newport News Circuit Court to create a Special Grand Jury, which will continue an investigation into "any security issues that may have contributed to this shooting."
Monday's indictment comes in the aftermath of increased security measures at schools across Hampton Roads, as well as a $40 million lawsuit that was filed on behalf of Zwerner against multiple administrators within Newport News Public Schools for alleged negligence. “There were failures in accountability at multiple levels that led to Abby being shot and almost killed," said Zwerner's attorney, Diane Toscano. "Today’s announcement addresses but one of those failures. It has been three months of investigation and still so many unanswered questions remain. Our lawsuit makes clear that we believe the school division violated state law, and we are pursuing this in civil court. We will not allow school leaders to escape accountability for their role in this tragedy.”
https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/ ... f036e8c3eb
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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sig230 wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:36 pm Why just the mother?

Is it parent or parents?
Good question, the only mention I recall of a father is articles stating that either the father or the mother were in the classroom with the son everyday, except the day of the shooting. Don't know if the parents lived together. The civil lawsuit by the teacher who got shot should bring out more facts. The superintendent of the district was fired and the assistant principal who was calling the shots that day, resigned.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The mother of the 6-year-old Richneck Elementary School student who shot his teacher earlier this year was arraigned in Newport News Circuit Court on Friday morning. The court appearance comes after Deja Taylor, 25, was indicted by a grand jury earlier this week on a charge of felony child neglect and a misdemeanor charge of endangering a child by reckless storage of a firearm. She turned herself in at the Newport News City Jail Thursday but later posted $5,000 and was released on bond. During Friday's arraignment, her charges were read and a date for a bench trial was set for August 15. The felony neglect charge is punishable by up to five years in prison. The misdemeanor charge of recklessly storing a firearm is punishable by up to one year in jail.
Deja Taylor's attorney,
He also said the 6-year-old boy's mother, grandfather, and father accompanied him in the classroom during the school year, but it stopped after Christmas break. “The decision-makers at Richneck Elementary decided it was OK for the child to attend class without either the mom or the grandfather, and on occasion the father," Ellenson said.
Ellenson has said the mother believed her gun, which was legally purchased, was secured on a top shelf in her closet and had a trigger lock. It is unclear how the boy got the gun and was able to take it to school on the day of the shooting.
The city prosecutor’s office said Tuesday that it is investigating whether the “actions or omissions” of any school employees could lead to criminal charges. Ellenson on Friday also gave an update on the status of the 6-year-old, saying he hasn't returned home since the shooting, but the family hoped to get him to live with his grandfather. A decision has been delayed, though.
https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/ ... 7bcc271841
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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I really have to wonder about this whole case. A six year old that needed an adult to be present to attend school. Why? Too violent? And why did the school drop the requirement? Seems to me the school and parents knew this child had serious issues. Sounds like a lot of people are responsible for this tragic event besides just the mother, but yeah let’s just lay it all on the mother, a gun owner.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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sikacz wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:30 am I really have to wonder about this whole case. A six year old that needed an adult to be present to attend school. Why? Too violent? And why did the school drop the requirement? Seems to me the school and parents knew this child had serious issues. Sounds like a lot of people are responsible for this tragic event besides just the mother, but yeah let’s just lay it all on the mother, a gun owner.
Yes, same questions I've had. He is six years old but many children are physically large for their age and if he had behavior issues and required a relative in the classroom, why was he there. There are special programs and schools to help children with behavioral issues. I'm glad the DA is looking at the school especially the assistant principal who appeared to be making all the decisions. The former principal is saying she didn't know about the problem. I expect the civil lawsuit by the teacher who was shot will reveal a lot of information.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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highdesert wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:59 am
sikacz wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:30 am I really have to wonder about this whole case. A six year old that needed an adult to be present to attend school. Why? Too violent? And why did the school drop the requirement? Seems to me the school and parents knew this child had serious issues. Sounds like a lot of people are responsible for this tragic event besides just the mother, but yeah let’s just lay it all on the mother, a gun owner.
Yes, same questions I've had. He is six years old but many children are physically large for their age and if he had behavior issues and required a relative in the classroom, why was he there. There are special programs and schools to help children with behavioral issues. I'm glad the DA is looking at the school especially the assistant principal who appeared to be making all the decisions. The former principal is saying she didn't know about the problem. I expect the civil lawsuit by the teacher who was shot will reveal a lot of information.
Hopefully. Also hopefully the blame will be more evenly spread. There’s more than one adult at fault here. Negligence goes to all adults concerned not just the gun owner.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The mother of the Virginia elementary student who police say shot his teacher in January is now facing federal gun charges. Court documents indicate that Deja Taylor, the mother of the 6-year-old boy who police say shot Richneck Elementary School teacher Abby Zwerner, faces federal charges of unlawful user of a controlled substance in possession of a firearm and making a false statement during the purchase of a firearm. It states she “was an unlawful user of marijuana.”

Taylor was indicted in April by a grand jury on charges of felony child neglect and misdemeanor recklessly leaving a loaded firearm so as to endanger a child.” The court filing states that “on or about July 19, 2022,” Taylor knew she was an unlawful user of a controlled substance and possessed a firearm – a Taurus model PT111, G2A 9mm semiautomatic handgun. It also states that she “knowingly made a false and fictitious written statement to Winfree Firearms,” that she was not an unlawful user of marijuana, “when in fact, she then knew she was an unlawful user of marijuana.”
Attorneys for Zwerner [teacher who was shot] filed a $40 million lawsuit against the school district, alleging gross negligence and reckless breach of duty against the school board and three former administrators at the school. The suit says they failed to protect Zwerner against the student despite multiple warnings.

Attorneys representing the school system and the former administrators filed a plea in late April asking a Newport News Circuit Court judge to dismiss Zwerner’s lawsuit. They argued that Zwerner’s injuries are covered under the Virginia Workers’ Compensation Act because she was shot while doing her job. The law provides benefits for employees injured on the job, but prohibits them from suing their employers if they were hurt during the course of their duties.
https://thehill.com/homenews/4035655-fe ... a-teacher/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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According to my google searches, personal possession of up to an ounce and use of marijuana in your home has been legal since 2021. Anyone know anything different? If so, doesn't seem like she lied. Still left an unsecured gun sitting around.

Wait, as I wrote this, I had the earthshaking realization that leaving an unsecured gun in the presence of a child might not be illegal but owning a gun and having smoked weed is. I'm going to need a minute to let this sink in. Please, someone correct me because this can't be right.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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sikacz wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 12:47 pm
highdesert wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:59 am
sikacz wrote: Sun Apr 16, 2023 10:30 am I really have to wonder about this whole case. A six year old that needed an adult to be present to attend school. Why? Too violent? And why did the school drop the requirement? Seems to me the school and parents knew this child had serious issues. Sounds like a lot of people are responsible for this tragic event besides just the mother, but yeah let’s just lay it all on the mother, a gun owner.
Yes, same questions I've had. He is six years old but many children are physically large for their age and if he had behavior issues and required a relative in the classroom, why was he there. There are special programs and schools to help children with behavioral issues. I'm glad the DA is looking at the school especially the assistant principal who appeared to be making all the decisions. The former principal is saying she didn't know about the problem. I expect the civil lawsuit by the teacher who was shot will reveal a lot of information.
Hopefully. Also hopefully the blame will be more evenly spread. There’s more than one adult at fault here. Negligence goes to all adults concerned not just the gun owner.
BUT it STARTED with a gun owner who allowed a severely disturbed 6yo access to that gun. I guess you think it's somehow unfair to point at a legal gun owner as the 'root cause', but that's the way it is. If the gun had been secured, this never would have happened.

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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cooper wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:22 am According to my google searches, personal possession of up to an ounce and use of marijuana in your home has been legal since 2021. Anyone know anything different? If so, doesn't seem like she lied. Still left an unsecured gun sitting around.

Wait, as I wrote this, I had the earthshaking realization that leaving an unsecured gun in the presence of a child might not be illegal but owning a gun and having smoked weed is. I'm going to need a minute to let this sink in. Please, someone correct me because this can't be right.
Marijuana is still a federal Schedule I drug. States have liberalized it and the feds have ignored it. The ATF form 4473 asks,
Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473- ... 9/download

I'm really surprised that the feds got involved in this case it's basically a state case. The US Atty could have gotten a lot of political pressure to prosecute.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The mother of the 6-year-old who police say shot his first-grade teacher in January in Virginia plans to plead guilty to new charges related to when she bought the gun her son is believed to have used. Deja Taylor was accused on Monday of unlawful use of marijuana in possession of a handgun and making a false statement about her drug use during the purchase of the firearm, both of which are felonies, federal prosecutors said.

Taylor's attorney, James Ellenson, told ABC News later Monday that she will enter a guilty plea within days. "We intend to present mitigating evidence that we trust the Court will view favorably at sentencing later this year following preparation of a pre-sentence report," Ellenson said in a statement.
Taylor also faces a state criminal case after being indicted in April for felony child neglect and a misdemeanor charge of endangering a child by reckless storage of a firearm. She has not pleaded to those counts.

Taylor, who had no previous criminal record, was released on a $5,000 surety bond on her state charges. After Taylor's last court appearance, Ellenson told reporters that she suffered from postpartum depression after a succession of miscarriages, including an ectopic pregnancy. Those incidents had "been a large factor in a number of the events that led up to the unfortunate event" when the teacher was shot, Ellenson said.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-6-year ... d=99855063
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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Remember: laws made by people can be unmade by people. GOTV.

It does seem foolish that in many states it is not illegal to leave a loaded hand gun where a kid can get it, but it's illegal for that gun owner to possess pot. OG's know that if you put two rival gangs in a room with guns and pot, everyone leaves alive. Change pot to booze and many people die, yet booze is legal and pot is not, 4473-wise. Such a strange situation perfectly illustrates Camus' philosophy of Absurdism.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Six-year old shoots their teacher

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The mother of a 6-year-old Virginia boy who shot and wounded his elementary school teacher pleaded guilty on Monday to federal gun charges in a deal with prosecutors, according to court documents and her lawyer. Deja Taylor, whose son shot teacher Abby Zwerner at Richneck Elementary School in Newport News in January, pleaded guilty in federal court to being a user of marijuana while in possession of a firearm. While many states have legalized marijuana, it remains illegal under federal law. Taylor also pleaded guilty to lying about her marijuana use during the background check required to obtain the 9mm semiautomatic pistol that her son used to shoot the teacher. Taylor's lawyers have previously said that it was a mystery how the boy got hold of the gun. Prosecutors said in court documents that no gun locks or safety boxes were found in law enforcement searches of her residences.

As part of the plea deal, prosecutors are seeking a maximum of two years in prison for Taylor, her attorney Gene Rossi said by phone. He hopes the judge will give her probation. Taylor - who still faces separate charges in state court related to the shooting - will be sentenced on Oct. 18. Virginia prosecutors charged her in April with felony child neglect and with the misdemeanor of recklessly leaving a loaded weapon so as to endanger a child. "This case is a tragedy," Rossi said. "It's a perfect storm of horrible consequences." According to police, the boy had taken the handgun from home, placed it in his backpack and removed it while Zwerner, 25, was teaching class, firing a single shot through her hand and into her chest.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/mother-6- ... 023-06-12/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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