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SCOTUS reversed Colorado. "It's up to Congress whether he should be removed."

A depressing quote from SCOTUSblog:
Justices Sotomayor, Kagan, and Jackson have a (joint?) opinion concurring in the judgment. They too agree that Colorado cannot keep Trump off the ballot. But then, they say, five justices go further and "decide novel constitutional questions to insulate this Court and [Trump] from further controversy," by announcing "that a disqualification for insurrection can occur only when Congress enacts a particular kind of legislation pursuant to Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment. In doing so, the majority shuts the door on other potential means of enforcement."
KAG
7:05 AM
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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A per curiam decision meaning it was issued by the court and not attributable to any justice, but probably Roberts wrote it. A unanimous decision.
For the reasons given, responsibility for enforcing Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates rests with Congress and not the States. The judgment of the Colorado Supreme Court therefore cannot stand. All nine Members of the Court agree with that result. Our colleagues writing separately further agree with many of the reasons this opinion provides for reaching it. See post, Part I (joint opinion of SOTOMAYOR, KAGAN, and JACKSON, JJ.); see also post, p. 1 (opinion of BARRETT, J.). So far as we can tell, they object only to our taking into account the distinctive way Section 3 works and the fact that Section 5 vests in Congress the power to enforce it. These are not the only reasons the States lack power to enforce this particular constitutional provision with respect to federal offices. But they are important ones, and it is the combination of all the reasons set forth in this opinion—not, as some of our colleagues would have it, just one particular rationale—that resolves this case. In our view, each of these reasons is necessary to provide a complete explanation for the judgment the Court unanimously reaches.

The judgment of the Colorado Supreme Court is reversed.

The mandate shall issue forthwith.

It is so ordered.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/2 ... 9_19m2.pdf
Last edited by highdesert on Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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featureless wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:24 am I'm glad it was unanimous. We do still believe in innocent until proven guilty. We can all believe he's guilty, but until the proper process declares one so, we can't just arbitrarily remove folk from the ballot.
I agree, innocent until proven guilty and that goes for everyone even people we loath. It was a desperation attempt by some Democrats in blue states that Trump will never win.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:33 am
featureless wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:24 am I'm glad it was unanimous. We do still believe in innocent until proven guilty. We can all believe he's guilty, but until the proper process declares one so, we can't just arbitrarily remove folk from the ballot.
I agree, innocent until proven guilty and that goes for everyone even people we loath. It was a desperation attempt by some Democrats in blue states that Trump will never win.
Agree. The right legal outcome. Perhaps the dems should have done a better job of bringing their charges forward to trial in the past three years. I said a year ago they were late and their efforts would be seen as politically motivated. Trying to bypass the legal process certainly is not going to change that perception.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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sikacz wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:18 am
highdesert wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:33 am
featureless wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:24 am I'm glad it was unanimous. We do still believe in innocent until proven guilty. We can all believe he's guilty, but until the proper process declares one so, we can't just arbitrarily remove folk from the ballot.
I agree, innocent until proven guilty and that goes for everyone even people we loath. It was a desperation attempt by some Democrats in blue states that Trump will never win.
Agree. The right legal outcome. Perhaps the dems should have done a better job of bringing their charges forward to trial in the past three years. I said a year ago they were late and their efforts would be seen as politically motivated. Trying to bypass the legal process certainly is not going to change that perception.
Yes and the only one to blame is Merrick Garland. Biden could have appointed former US senator Doug Jones of Alabama, but he selected Garland who spent decades as an appellate judge. Being AG and running DOJ is a very different day to day job than an appellate judge.

The MAGA types see Trump's legal cases as partisan especially trying to use the 14th Amendment to remove him from ballots. If Congress wanted to use the 14th they would have enacted statute law to implement it, but they never did it.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:31 am
sikacz wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:18 am
highdesert wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:33 am
featureless wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:24 am I'm glad it was unanimous. We do still believe in innocent until proven guilty. We can all believe he's guilty, but until the proper process declares one so, we can't just arbitrarily remove folk from the ballot.
I agree, innocent until proven guilty and that goes for everyone even people we loath. It was a desperation attempt by some Democrats in blue states that Trump will never win.
Agree. The right legal outcome. Perhaps the dems should have done a better job of bringing their charges forward to trial in the past three years. I said a year ago they were late and their efforts would be seen as politically motivated. Trying to bypass the legal process certainly is not going to change that perception.
Yes and the only one to blame is Merrick Garland. Biden could have appointed former US senator Doug Jones of Alabama, but he selected Garland who spent decades as an appellate judge. Being AG and running DOJ is a very different day to day job than an appellate judge.

The MAGA types see Trump's legal cases as partisan especially trying to use the 14th Amendment to remove him from ballots. If Congress wanted to use the 14th they would have enacted statute law to implement it, but they never did it.
Right again!
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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That this per curiam decision was unanimous comforts me. I would like to see a similar outcome in the immunity decision where he will be held responsible, that he is not immune from prosecution for his crimes.

If wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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For some perspective, let’s look at a list of presidents perceived as corrupt.
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-m ... nglepage=1
It seems both parties have a fair number and a good number from recent years. This is just one list and likely there are others, but this one doesn’t seem to favor either party. My take on this is, our institutions will survive a corrupt president as long as our legal system and constitution is protected. This centers on corruption, but we’ve had other presidents with significant failings that weren’t labeled corrupt. I can think of a couple from the past.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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sikacz wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:54 am For some perspective, let’s look at a list of presidents perceived as corrupt.
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-m ... nglepage=1
It seems both parties have a fair number and a good number from recent years. This is just one list and likely there are others, but this one doesn’t seem to favor either party. My take on this is, our institutions will survive a corrupt president as long as our legal system and constitution is protected. This centers on corruption, but we’ve had other presidents with significant failings that weren’t labeled corrupt. I can think of a couple from the past.
We have survived corrupt politicians since the beginning. There are some shocking names on that list but nothing surprises me anymore.
My greatest concern for America is is dilution of the constitution - we have States literally ignoring SCOTUS rulings right and left with impunity and that aspect, combined with a corrupt individual in power (like Trump) is very dangerous for this fragmented and angry republic.

For the record, I'm pretty sure Biden is possibly as corrupt as they come. Just maybe not at this exact moment in history while he's president.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:25 pm
sikacz wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:54 am For some perspective, let’s look at a list of presidents perceived as corrupt.
https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-m ... nglepage=1
It seems both parties have a fair number and a good number from recent years. This is just one list and likely there are others, but this one doesn’t seem to favor either party. My take on this is, our institutions will survive a corrupt president as long as our legal system and constitution is protected. This centers on corruption, but we’ve had other presidents with significant failings that weren’t labeled corrupt. I can think of a couple from the past.
We have survived corrupt politicians since the beginning. There are some shocking names on that list but nothing surprises me anymore.
My greatest concern for America is is dilution of the constitution - we have States literally ignoring SCOTUS rulings right and left with impunity and that aspect, combined with a corrupt individual in power (like Trump) is very dangerous for this fragmented and angry republic.

For the record, I'm pretty sure Biden is possibly as corrupt as they come. Just maybe not at this exact moment in history while he's president.

VooDoo
The electing the lesser evil approach got us to this point and allowing two parties to dominate and create laws protecting their positions and preventing smaller new parties from emerging. There is nothing in the constitution on just having two parties, it’s one of the best lies perpetuated that allows these two to retain power. It’s at the heart of why our system has become so polarized and corrupt. Playing on voter fear perpetuates the problem. If as some here say biden can’t disarm us then neither can trump establish a dictatorship. In both cases a subversion of our constitution is required or significant unconstitutional laws passed by congress and signed by a receptive president. I can see dems passing anti gun unconstitutional laws and biden signing them. I don’t see all republicans passing laws to make trump a dictator for life nor any dems joining to vote in. So the latter is totally based on fear mongering. The first however is a campaign goal pushed by the dems and biden. So a vote for biden is an approval of an AWB and other restrictions. Not going to support that ever. Also, this is a gun rights forum so my main concern for discussion. That doesn’t mean I don’t have other objections to biden, I do. So I don’t object to him on just a single issue.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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Well greater or lesser seems to be a matter of perspective and opinion. There’s a significant number that seem to not like biden’s agenda and priorities. The electorate that are willing to give trump another go undoubtedly think he is the lesser evil at this point. Personally I think running either of these candidates is bad for the country, but not something that can’t be fixed. It’s a matter of which infringement does each voter think will be easier to overturn. With lower courts ignoring SCOTUS rulings I’m not inclined to want to fight the gun issue. I’ll gladly fight the other issues if they need it. Having to give up my ability own, defend myself or transfer my arms to my loved ones would be a hardship I don’t want. Simply put biden is an asshole for making me make this choice.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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FROM FOUR RECENT POLLS


From Forbes/HarrisX released 2/29/2024

Do you think President Biden should run for a second term or not run for a second term?

Run 36%
Not Run 64%


Do you think Donald Trump should run for president again in 2024?

Run 36%
Not Run 53%


If the 2024 election for president were held today and it was between Donald Trump, the Republican and Joe Biden, the Democrat, who would you vote for?

Trump + leaners 52%
Biden + leaners 48%


If President Biden decides not to run again in 2024, who would you prefer to be the Democratic candidate?

Kamala Harris 27%
Dean Philips 11%
Someone Else 37%
Don't know/unsure 25%


Is Joe Biden mentally fit to serve as president of the United States, or do you have doubts about his fitness for office?

He is mentally fit 33%
I have doubts about his fitness 67%


Do you think Joe Biden should drop out of the Democratic primary for presidency, or is he the best candidate for their party right now?

Drop out 60%
Best candidate right now 40%


If Joe Biden is re-elected as president of the United States in 2024, do you think he will successfully complete a full four year term or not?

Yes, he will complete a term 39%
No, he will not 61%


Do you think Donald Trump is showing he is too old to be president, or do you think he is showing he is fit to be president?

Showing he is too old 48%
Showing he is fit to be president 52%


Do you think Donald Trump should drop out of the Republican primary for presidency, or is he the best candidate for their party right now?

Drop out 51%
Best candidate right now 49%


If Donald Trump is elected as president of the United States in 2024, do you think he will successfully complete a full four-year term or not?

Yes, he will complete a term 61%
No, he will not 39%



TIPP poll released 3/3/2024

For Democrats, the top issues are:

33% Gun violence/Gun control
29% Economy
25% Climate change
22% Immigration/Border security
21% Abortion
19% Health care
16% Election 2024
16% Crime
16% Homelessness

For Republicans, the top priorities are:

58% Immigration/Border security
50% Economy
23% National debt/Federal government spending
22% Crime
16% Terrorism/National security
15% Homelessness

Independents’ priorities:

37% Economy
33% Immigration/Border security
23% Homelessness
21% Trust in government/Politicians
16% Home affordability
16% Health care
15% National debt/Federal government spending
15% Gun violence/Gun control



Fox News Poll released 3/3/2024
The poll was done by Beacon Research a Democratic pollster and Shaw & Co. a Republican pollster.

How satisfied are you with the way things are going in the country today -- are you very
satisfied, somewhat satisfied, not very satisfied, or not at all satisfied?


Satisfield 27%
Not satisfield 72%


I'm going to read you the names of several individuals. Please tell me whether you have a generally favorable or unfavorable opinion of each one.

Trump 43% favorable 57% unfavorable
Biden 41% favorable 59% unfavorable
Haley 37% favorable 51% unfavorable
Harris 37% favorable 60% unfavorable


On a scale of excellent, good, only fair and poor, how would you rate economic
conditions today?


Excellent 6%
Good 20%
Only fair 32%
Poor 41%


How would you vote if the candidates were:

Joe Biden 38%
Donald Trump 41%
RFK, Jr 13%
Cornel West 3%
Jill Stein 2%


Which one of the following issues will be MOST important in deciding your vote for president?

Economy 37%
Immigration 21%
Abortion 10%
Health care 7%
Election integrity 5%
Climate change 4%
Crime 4%
Foreign policy 4%
Guns 4%


How much do you blame lack of action by the current Congress for the situation at the U.S.-Mexico border?

Blame 81%
Don't blame 17%


How much do you blame lack of enforcement by the Biden administration for the situation at the U.S.-Mexico border?

Blame 72%
Don't blame 27%


Do you think Joe Biden has the mental soundness to serve effectively as president, or not?

Yes 37%
No 62%
Don't know 1%


Do you think Donald Trump has the mental soundness to serve effectively as president, or not?

Yes 47%
No 52%
Don't know 1%


What do you think is more important to Joe Biden?

Doing what's best for himself 51%
Doing what's best for the country 46%
Don't know 3%


What do you think is more important to Donald Trump?

Doing what's best for himself 57%
Doing what's best for the country 41%
Don't know 1%


Do you think Joe Biden is honest and trustworthy, or not?

Yes 43%
No 55%
Don't know 2%


Do you think Donald Trump is honest and trustworthy, or not?

Yes 36%
No 62%
Don't know 2%


Do you think Joe Biden was legitimately elected president, or not?

Yes 60%
No 30%
Don't know 10%




The Wall Street Journal poll conducted by GBAO a Democratic pollster and Fabrizio Lee a Republican pollster.


All other things being equal, if the 2024 election for Congress were held today, would you be more likely to vote for the Republican candidate or the Democratic candidate for Congress?

Republican 46%
Democrat 42%


If the 2024 election for President were held today and if the candidates were for whom would you vote?

Trump 40%
Biden 35%
Kennedy 9%
West 2%
Stein 1%
Mapstead 1%
Undecided 12%


Do you approve or disapprove of the job Joe Biden is doing as President?

Approve 38%
Disapprove 60%


Do you approve or disapprove of the job Donald Trump did as President?

Approve 48%
Disapprove 50%


Over the past year, please tell me if you think the following measures have moved in the right direction or wrong direction.

The ability for the average person to get ahead
Right 25%
Wrong 65%
Don't know/refuse 10%

Crime in your community
Right 28%
Wrong 58%
Don't know/refuse 14%

Immigration and border security
Right 16%
Wrong 71%
Don't know/refuse 13%


What has increased more over the past few years, your household income or the costs of everyday goods and services, or have they increased by about the same amount?

Household income 7%
Costs of everyday goods and services 74%
Increased about the same amount 17%
Don't know/refused 2%


A bipartisan group of Senators and the White House recently proposed a bill to make it harder for migrants to get asylum in the U.S., to increase the number of border agents, and give the President the power to limit the number of migrants coming into the country if immigration goes above a certain limit. From what you've heard, would you favor or oppose this proposal?

Total favor 59%
Total oppose 34%


Next, are some proposals on some other issues proposed by candidates. Please tell me whether you favor or oppose each proposal.

Pardon some of the people convicted of crimes related to the January 6th riots at the U.S. Capitol

Total favor 40%
Total oppose 55%

Extend the tax cuts passed by President Trump that are due to expire in early 2025

Total favor 52%
Total oppose 34%

Change current policy so the U.S. isn't obliged to defend NATO allies from Russian aggression if those allies have not lived up to their financial obligations for their own national defense

Total favor 45%
Total oppose 46%

Encourage Russia to invade NATO allies if they haven't met NATO defense spending targets

Total favor 4%
Total oppose 82%

Forgive federally-funded student loan debt

Total favor 48%
Total oppose 49%

Allow children to choose their own gender identity without their parents' consent

Total favor 25%
Total oppose 70%


If Donald Trump is convicted of a felony in either the classified documents or January 6th federal trials and the election for President were held today, would you vote for Republican Donald Trump or Democrat Joe Biden?

Trump 44%
Biden 48%


Which of the following statements comes closest to your position on abortion?

Abortion should be legal in all cases 28%

Abortion should be legal in most cases but with
some restrictions 32%

Abortion should be illegal except in limited
cases, such as rape, incest, and when the
woman's life is endangered 29%

Abortion should be illegal in all circumstances 8%
Don't know/refused 3%


https://harrisx.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... 9.2024.pdf
https://tippinsights.com/bidens-sotu-ad ... he-nation/
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/ ... elease.pdf
https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/docu ... b_2024.pdf
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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Thanks for that. People don’t think biden could complete a term if elected and his fitness is questionable. It doesn’t look good for his numbers. That doesn’t surprise me. It looks like the only one question hit trump hard, if he was convicted and held responsible for January 6th. The dems had years to sort out a better candidate than biden and years to nail trump. Neither happened. The dems push on gun control is just pure stupidity just look at the numbers. There’s no way to walk away from it in the general election if it’s the main theme in the primary.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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featureless wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:34 am I'm amazed at how many think both old guys are too old and too dishonest. Yet here we are.
Exactly and also think they are both dishonest. It’s because the show parties don’t give a crap what the electorate thinks.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

693
The 2-party system frequently results in choices that resemble going into a restaurant, and the only things on the menu are a shit sandwich with ketchup, and a shit sandwich with mayo. Your only choice is between ketchup and mayo, you still have to eat the shit sandwich.

If you choose not to order, that's OK, you'll get served whatever most of the other patrons order, and have to eat it anyway.

This time it is a choice between a shit sandwich with horseradish, and a shit sandwich with bubonic plague spread.

I'll have the horseradish, please.

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Don’t intend to eat shit sandwiches. That’s just perpetuating the inevitable. If there’s going to be an uprising, I prefer it comes about sooner than later. So there is a third choice after all.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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featureless wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:02 pm Our county turnout was 12%. I wrote in Halley and then she quit, so... I guess we really are doing 2020 again. Apparently, very few are excited about the prospects.
It’s sad that people are just giving up.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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sikacz wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:07 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:02 pm Our county turnout was 12%. I wrote in Halley and then she quit, so... I guess we really are doing 2020 again. Apparently, very few are excited about the prospects.
It’s sad that people are just giving up.
Many are to the point of, You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, So don't and go have a beer.

Here in Texas we have an indicted crook for an AG. A governor that is an idiot that thinks he can do whatever he wants and to hell with the Federal government laws and regulations. But what's bad they will get reelected. What is worse, the public schools will dee their funding go down because Abbott and Patrick along with the Repugs are supporting a voucher system that will take taxpayer money away from the pubic schools and send it to private schools, so parents can send their little darlings to private schools.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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TrueTexan wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:10 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:07 pm
featureless wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:02 pm Our county turnout was 12%. I wrote in Halley and then she quit, so... I guess we really are doing 2020 again. Apparently, very few are excited about the prospects.
It’s sad that people are just giving up.
Many are to the point of, You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, So don't and go have a beer.

Here in Texas we have an indicted crook for an AG. A governor that is an idiot that thinks he can do whatever he wants and to hell with the Federal government laws and regulations. But what's bad they will get reelected. What is worse, the public schools will dee their funding go down because Abbott and Patrick along with the Repugs are supporting a voucher system that will take taxpayer money away from the pubic schools and send it to private schools, so parents can send their little darlings to private schools.
Agree. The defunding is pure BS and is meant to destroy the public school system.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 2024 Presidential Polling

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My county was 13.8% turnout, the whole State of California was 19%. Not much enthusiasm with the candidates.

In the CA primary to fill Dianne Feinstein's seat, it will be Democrat Adam Schiff vs Republican Steve Garvey. Not only is CA a coastal state and blue but the Democrats that control the state live on the coast as can be seen in the US Senate primary. From LA County north to Humboldt County they voted blue. My county went for Steve Garvey.
https://electionresults.sos.ca.gov/retu ... /us-senate

Democrat Katie Porter who came in third in the jungle primary has been saying that the election was rigged. Some billionaires funded ads against her, so in her opinion it was rigged. Schiff has a lot of money behind him so he'll beat Garvey in November, he just didn't want to face Porter.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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