1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sh ... 024-04-02/
In the aftermath of the shooting, police cordoned off a building at the Viertola school in the Vantaa suburb of Helsinki.
The arrest was made without further violence in the suburb of Siltamaki, away from the school. Both the suspect and the weapon were now in police custody, police said.
The handgun's permit belonged to a relative of the suspect, they said.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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Highly unusual in Finland. According to a 2017 Small Arms Survey, Finland comes in at #8 on civilian firearms ownership. The Nordic countries except Denmark are in the top 25 with Iceland at #10; Norway at #14 and Sweden at #20. Switzerland is #15 and of course the US is #1. I expect most firearms in the Nordic countries are for hunting and pest control. Finland was invaded by Russia and Norway was occupied by Germany in WWII.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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According to some, Finland never has problems with guns in the homes or being used to commit crimes, it's all Guns N' Roses. The guns are there for hunting, target shooting and to defend Finland against a Russian invasion.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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Sweden is the European country with the highest number of firearms homicides per 100,000.. The US is #1 followed by Saudi Arabia, Chile, Canada and then Sweden.
The report, by the Swedish national council for crime prevention (BRA), said the Scandinavian country had overtaken Italy and eastern European countries primarily because of the violent activities of organised criminal gangs. “The rate in Sweden ranks very high in relation to other European countries, at approximately four deaths per million inhabitants per year. The average for Europe is approximately 1.6 deaths per million inhabitants,” it said. “None of the other countries included in the study have experienced comparable increases.” The report said a decline in other forms of deadly violence, including knife crime, had masked the rise in fatal shootings.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... port-finds

It's not just public shootings with handguns and rifles, the gangs also bomb residences and businesses mainly in the large cities of Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmo and Uppsala. The left wing blames right wing gangs and the right blames migrants who brought their gangs and criminal organizations to Sweden. Sweden's Social Democratic Party has taken the blame for not better integrating migrants into Sweden.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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highdesert wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:38 am Highly unusual in Finland. According to a 2017 Small Arms Survey, Finland comes in at #8 on civilian firearms ownership. The Nordic countries except Denmark are in the top 25 with Iceland at #10; Norway at #14 and Sweden at #20. Switzerland is #15 and of course the US is #1. I expect most firearms in the Nordic countries are for hunting and pest control. Finland was invaded by Russia and Norway was occupied by Germany in WWII.
This should underscore that all the regulations available won’t eliminate every instance of violence. In short, in Finland gun ownership is not a right, a doctors approval is necessary, every purchase is by license and registered, mandatory gun safes inspected by the police at anytime, background check and approval by police in person and others I likely missed. Oh and guns are not allowed to be used in self defense. A determined individual will lash out and find the means. Likely stabbings are more common in Finland in perspective. To top it off in Finland there’s universal healthcare and access to mental health care. No matter what someone will always slip through and likely in this case there were signs that were ignored. I’m not really interested in digging into the causes here, but addressing them would have likely prevented this instance. Police likely already know the details of how this individual got their hands on the gun and likely why they committed this act.
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Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:20 am
highdesert wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:38 am Highly unusual in Finland. According to a 2017 Small Arms Survey, Finland comes in at #8 on civilian firearms ownership. The Nordic countries except Denmark are in the top 25 with Iceland at #10; Norway at #14 and Sweden at #20. Switzerland is #15 and of course the US is #1. I expect most firearms in the Nordic countries are for hunting and pest control. Finland was invaded by Russia and Norway was occupied by Germany in WWII.
This should underscore that all the regulations available won’t eliminate every instance of violence. In short, in Finland gun ownership is not a right, a doctors approval is necessary, every purchase is by license and registered, mandatory gun safes inspected by the police at anytime, background check and approval by police in person and others I likely missed. Oh and guns are not allowed to be used in self defense. A determined individual will lash out and find the means. Likely stabbings are more common in Finland in perspective. To top it off in Finland there’s universal healthcare and access to mental health care. No matter what someone will always slip through and likely in this case there were signs that were ignored. I’m not really interested in digging into the causes here, but addressing them would have likely prevented this instance. Police likely already know the details of how this individual got their hands on the gun and likely why they committed this act.
But are you saying that it might reduce instance of violence with guns by having these regulations and laws. requiring a doctors approval is necessary, every purchase is by license and registered, mandatory gun safes inspected by the police at anytime, background check and approval by police in person and others you might have missed? These approaches to reducing gun violence in Finland sounds a lot like what the control crowd wants here in the USA.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:44 am
sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:20 am
highdesert wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:38 am Highly unusual in Finland. According to a 2017 Small Arms Survey, Finland comes in at #8 on civilian firearms ownership. The Nordic countries except Denmark are in the top 25 with Iceland at #10; Norway at #14 and Sweden at #20. Switzerland is #15 and of course the US is #1. I expect most firearms in the Nordic countries are for hunting and pest control. Finland was invaded by Russia and Norway was occupied by Germany in WWII.
This should underscore that all the regulations available won’t eliminate every instance of violence. In short, in Finland gun ownership is not a right, a doctors approval is necessary, every purchase is by license and registered, mandatory gun safes inspected by the police at anytime, background check and approval by police in person and others I likely missed. Oh and guns are not allowed to be used in self defense. A determined individual will lash out and find the means. Likely stabbings are more common in Finland in perspective. To top it off in Finland there’s universal healthcare and access to mental health care. No matter what someone will always slip through and likely in this case there were signs that were ignored. I’m not really interested in digging into the causes here, but addressing them would have likely prevented this instance. Police likely already know the details of how this individual got their hands on the gun and likely why they committed this act.
But are you saying that it might reduce instance of violence with guns by having these regulations and laws. requiring a doctors approval is necessary, every purchase is by license and registered, mandatory gun safes inspected by the police at anytime, background check and approval by police in person and others you might have missed? These approaches to reducing gun violence in Finland sounds a lot like what the control crowd wants here in the USA.
This is a link in English on the Finnish Police website.
https://poliisi.fi/en/apply-for-firearm ... 0.1.1-1621

From what I've read, most European countries will grant a firearms permit to someone who has been a member for awhile of a shooting club, where they've taken classes and practiced shooting different firearms. Some also require your physician to stipulate that you're healthy, in effect that you're not crazy or senile. Britain requires that people with shotgun and/or rifle permits keep them secured and police inspect annually. It might just be the local constable who stops in and verifies serial numbers and that the guns are in a safe.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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No, I’m saying no system is going to prevent violence and the only real way to reduce it is the underlying causes. Finland has gun regulation mainly because of Soviet Union’s insistence after WW2. They wanted to know where the guns were and could rely on the Finnish government and the police to enforce the restrictions. My opinion is Finland level of gun violence is low due to other factors, healthcare, inclusion and so on. Finland didn’t have a issue with gun related violence prior to these laws.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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By the way the gun in question was likely a .22LR revolver and all the children involved including the shooter were 12 years old and 6th graders. The child shooter cannot be imprisoned, but is the care of child protective services. Police have already questioned him once and next time they will be allowed to speak to him is tomorrow.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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senorgrand wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:51 pm I don't know how to say it in Finnish, but lock up yer shit.
Well we don’t know it wasn’t locked up. Finland has strict laws on guns storage which requires a safe. A 12 year old is old is enough to figure out how to open safes. If it’s a combination lock it wouldn’t be too difficult if the child had access to the house as a close relative might. So far nothing has been said except the gun was owned by a close relative. You can have all the laws on the books and there will always be someone if determined enough to break them. But no amount of mandatory laws help if an adult is irresponsible as well like leaving a safe open or a gun unsupervised.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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Balanced reporting with just about anything you’d want to know about what’s going to happen. It’s in Finnish. Translate if you want.

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/van ... #gs.6sysz2

Nutshell, there won’t be a trial, the investigation will continue and assess guilt for purpose of damages the child will be responsible for, the gun owner will be investigated but not held liable for the child’s actions, the owner may face some charges depending if there was negligence likely a fine if negligence is determined, this is extremely rare event, and the child will not be incarcerated but likely will not be allowed to remain home.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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From Sika's link.
The handgun used in the act is owned by the suspect's close relative with permission. At this stage, the police have not specified what kind of handgun it is. There is also no information yet on how the weapon has been stored. According to Tolvanen [professor of criminal law], the authorized holder of the gun has to explain to the police how the suspect got hold of the gun. The authorized holder of the gun is also likely to be suspected of a crime. - In that case, firearm crime, i.e. negligent storage, comes into question as a crime. It could also be that the storage has been perfectly appropriate, but the child has nevertheless gotten his hands on the gun.

Tolvanen says that at this stage it is still difficult to take a position on the possible punishment, but as a crime, under certain conditions, the degree of punishment can be up to two years. Tolvanen thinks a fine is more likely if there have been problems with the storage of the weapon. However, he emphasizes that the owner of the gun is in no way criminally liable or liable for compensation for the act of a 12-year-old.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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highdesert wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:22 pm From Sika's link.
The handgun used in the act is owned by the suspect's close relative with permission. At this stage, the police have not specified what kind of handgun it is. There is also no information yet on how the weapon has been stored. According to Tolvanen [professor of criminal law], the authorized holder of the gun has to explain to the police how the suspect got hold of the gun. The authorized holder of the gun is also likely to be suspected of a crime. - In that case, firearm crime, i.e. negligent storage, comes into question as a crime. It could also be that the storage has been perfectly appropriate, but the child has nevertheless gotten his hands on the gun.

Tolvanen says that at this stage it is still difficult to take a position on the possible punishment, but as a crime, under certain conditions, the degree of punishment can be up to two years. Tolvanen thinks a fine is more likely if there have been problems with the storage of the weapon. However, he emphasizes that the owner of the gun is in no way criminally liable or liable for compensation for the act of a 12-year-old.
That sums up part of it. I doubt there will be much publicity on this. It’s a sad but rare event. Note even in the happiest country in the world tragedy happens.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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senorgrand wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:13 pm I think regardless of laws, gun owners as a group need to encourage one another to lock up our guns. A 12 year old getting ahold of a gun is less about the 12 year old and more about the gun owner.
Locking up is appropriate especially if children have access. In Finland that’s not even issue that’s debated since guns are not for self defense there’s little need to keep them lying about or unlocked. As the article outlined the Finnish police will figure it out what happened here. It’s likely their findings won’t be released, that would be unusual. The child’s interest is likely to be a critical concern and determining what happened and why. The gun owners negligence or not will be determined as a separate legal issue. If you want Finnish laws, repeal the second amendment. You might also note Finland treats minors differently than we do here, that’s also Finnish law. By the way handguns small enough to be concealed are not allowed so no more pocket anything. There’s nothing in this case that will magically show us how to solve our violence issues. It’s in a country with significantly different judicial system and rights.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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senorgrand wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:34 pm I never advocated for Finland's laws, but rather that we, as a community of gun owners, recognize our personal responsibility to secure our weapons.
In this country if you have children that have access I agree. But in this thread it just seemed to jump to a conclusion and if you didn’t notice the Finns treat the two instances as separate.
At this point there has not been a determination of negligence or not as the police in Finland have noted. So I saw that comment as catering to a specific agenda here and no relevance to this incident in Finland.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 1 child killed, 2 wounded in school shooting in Finland

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The Finnish government declared Wednesday a nationwide day of mourning, ordering state agencies and institutions to lower the national flag to half-mast. The motive for a school shooting in Finland that left a 12-year-old boy dead was bullying, Finnish police said in a statement. The suspected attacker, also aged 12, was detained and taken into custody after the attack at Viertola school in Vantaa, on the outskirts of Helsinki on Tuesday. "The suspect has said during interrogations that he was the target of bullying, and this information has also been confirmed in the preliminary investigation by the police," a statement said. "The suspect had transferred to the Viertola school at the beginning of this year", it noted. The shooter and the victims were all classmates and the two injured girls are still in hospital. Police have opened a murder and attempted murder investigation, which was carried out with “a revolver-like handgun".

Due to his age, the suspect cannot be held criminally responsible and has now been handed to the care of social services. Public buildings across Finland lowered their flags from 08:00 local time on Wednesday to mark a day of mourning. Finnish blue-and-white flags were hoisted at half-staff and scores of people including parents, teachers and fellow students laid flowers and lit candles in the snowy landscape near the school building where the shooting occurred. Many private households across Finland joined in the commemoration. In the past decades, Finland has witnessed two major deadly school shootings.

In November 2007, an 18-year-old student armed with a semi-automatic pistol opened fire at the premises of the Jokela High School in Tuusula, southern Finland, killing nine people. He was later found dead with self-inflicted wounds. In September 2008, a 22-year-old student shot and killed 10 people with a semi-automatic pistol at a vocational college in Kauhajoki, southwestern Finland, before fatally shooting himself. In the Nordic nation of 5.6 million, there are more than 1.5 million licensed firearms and about 430,000 license holders, according to the Finnish Interior Ministry. Hunting and gun ownership have long traditions in the sparsely-populated northern European country. Responsibility for granting permits for ordinary firearms rests with local police departments. Following the school shootings in 2007 and 2008, Finland tightened its gun laws by raising the minimum age for firearms ownership and giving police greater powers to make background checks on individuals applying for a gun license.
https://www.euronews.com/2024/04/03/bul ... ar-old-boy
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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