Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2401
Greengunner wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:28 pm
highdesert wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:16 pm Not supporting Biden doesn't mean anyone here is automatically a Trump supporter. We don't have to be on one side or the other and we can criticize both sides. No politician is above criticism, neither Trump nor Biden nor Newsom nor Abbott nor DeSantis...

People on the left believe Trump is guilty of every crime in the book, those are passionate opinions and the other half of the voting population thinks just the opposite. Opinions and proof are different things and Trump is likely to walk away from all of it without a single conviction.

People on this forum are smarter than people on right wing boards that spew Biden hate.
I have plenty of criticism for Biden. His seemingly unconditional support for Israel is endlessly frustrating and I wish he skewed to the left on a number of issues. Really, I could go on and on about his shortcomings, though he has been a surprisingly effective president in some respects.

But all of that pales in comparison to trying to overturn an election and remain in power unlawfully. I have every expectation that Trump will, in fact, walk away from all of it without a single conviction. That is because of a number of missteps, not the least of which being that the DOJ moved too fucking slowly. But just because he's likely to get away with it all, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I've made it no secret that I believe Trump is an abject threat to democracy and that everyone who can vote, should vote for Biden. That's not because I think Biden is great, or because I'm "team blue" no matter what. It is because, and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, Trump tried to overturn the election and remain in power unlawfully. He continues to spread the Big Lie and undermine our democratic institutions. He oversaw the first non peaceful transfer of power and continues to refuse to commit to the peaceful transfer of power. Those things are unprecedented in modern American politics. Adults can disagree on policy, but that stuff ain't policy.

I understand that some folks here see my dire predictions as so much fear mongering, but I equally believe that those folks are walking around with a massive blind spot.

Yes, I hate Trump. And yes, everyone should vote for Biden. As reductive as it sounds, I stand by it.
I would argue that there we all should vote for ANY non-MAGAt who ran against Trump! From AOC, to James Lankford, from Tlaib to Tom Cotton, From Bernie Sanders to Mitch McConnell. I'd even vote for that spineless, moral-less prick Cruz against Trump.

When the dam is breaking you don't vote against reinforcing it!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2402
YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 5:16 pm
Greengunner wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:28 pm
highdesert wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:16 pm Not supporting Biden doesn't mean anyone here is automatically a Trump supporter. We don't have to be on one side or the other and we can criticize both sides. No politician is above criticism, neither Trump nor Biden nor Newsom nor Abbott nor DeSantis...

People on the left believe Trump is guilty of every crime in the book, those are passionate opinions and the other half of the voting population thinks just the opposite. Opinions and proof are different things and Trump is likely to walk away from all of it without a single conviction.

People on this forum are smarter than people on right wing boards that spew Biden hate.
I have plenty of criticism for Biden. His seemingly unconditional support for Israel is endlessly frustrating and I wish he skewed to the left on a number of issues. Really, I could go on and on about his shortcomings, though he has been a surprisingly effective president in some respects.

But all of that pales in comparison to trying to overturn an election and remain in power unlawfully. I have every expectation that Trump will, in fact, walk away from all of it without a single conviction. That is because of a number of missteps, not the least of which being that the DOJ moved too fucking slowly. But just because he's likely to get away with it all, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I've made it no secret that I believe Trump is an abject threat to democracy and that everyone who can vote, should vote for Biden. That's not because I think Biden is great, or because I'm "team blue" no matter what. It is because, and I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, Trump tried to overturn the election and remain in power unlawfully. He continues to spread the Big Lie and undermine our democratic institutions. He oversaw the first non peaceful transfer of power and continues to refuse to commit to the peaceful transfer of power. Those things are unprecedented in modern American politics. Adults can disagree on policy, but that stuff ain't policy.

I understand that some folks here see my dire predictions as so much fear mongering, but I equally believe that those folks are walking around with a massive blind spot.

Yes, I hate Trump. And yes, everyone should vote for Biden. As reductive as it sounds, I stand by it.
I would argue that there we all should vote for ANY non-MAGAt who ran against Trump! From AOC, to James Lankford, from Tlaib to Tom Cotton, From Bernie Sanders to Mitch McConnell. I'd even vote for that spineless, moral-less prick Cruz against Trump.

When the dam is breaking you don't vote against reinforcing it!
Agreed. And to add to CD’s point about the EC, I would even encourage people in deep red or deep blue non swing states to vote Biden and anti-MAGA across the board. The rebuke of the anti democracy movement needs to be unambiguously overwhelming.

All that said, I’m under no illusions. I fully expect Trump to win and I’m sorting out contingency plans. My wife is a French citizen, which makes an emergency exit strategy easier for me and mine than it will be for many others.
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2403
Hmmmm. Wouldn't it be great if Trump picked Alito as his VP? Get him off the SCOTUS!

It's not without precedent in the GOP. In 1916, Associate Justice Charles Evans Hughes was convinced to leave the Court and run against Wilson, as a Progressive Republican (now an oxymoron). Hughes did so and a 3000 vote swing in California would have made him President. Hughes lost. He then went on to serve as Secretary of State under Harding, In 1930, Hoover nominated Hughes BACK to the SCOTUS, this time as Chief Justice where he served until 1941.

Of course, Hughes gave up his seat for a shot at POTUS, not the VP spot.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2404
YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 5:28 pm Hmmmm. Wouldn't it be great if Trump picked Alito as his VP? Get him off the SCOTUS!

It's not without precedent in the GOP. In 1916, Associate Justice Charles Evans Hughes was convinced to leave the Court and run against Wilson, as a Progressive Republican (now an oxymoron). Hughes did so and a 3000 vote swing in California would have made him President. Hughes lost. He then went on to serve as Secretary of State under Harding, In 1930, Hoover nominated Hughes BACK to the SCOTUS, this time as Chief Justice where he served until 1941.

Of course, Hughes gave up his seat for a shot at POTUS, not the VP spot.
And LBJ talked Justice Arthur Goldberg into becoming UN ambassador so he could appoint his friend Abe Fortas to the Supreme Court. That didn't work out well for LBJ, Goldberg or Fortas.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2405
As I've said before, one of the areas I agree with Biden on is his support for Israel, I'm not Jewish. I despise Netanyahu and his right wing cabinet, but support the existence of Israel. Biden just needs to get tougher with Netanyahu. I think Biden would have been better served by Doug Jones as AG instead of Merrick Garland. I think the Trump investigations and indictments would have started earlier, instead of waiting two years allowing for Trump to push for delay after delay. If Trump wins he'll just order his new AG to get the federal indictments dismissed.

At this point in time Trump has 268 electoral votes which includes 3 of the 6 swing states according to polling, Harry Enten at CNN is right. It takes 270 to win so Trump needs one of the last 3 swing states to put him over the top. Or Biden could win the 3 rust belt states of PA, MI and WI to win, he won them in 2020 but Trump won them in 2016. I don't make predictions, there are too many variables in campaigns. Biden is the incumbent with a lot of power, it's up to him to turn his campaign around.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2406
highdesert wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 10:56 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 5:28 pm Hmmmm. Wouldn't it be great if Trump picked Alito as his VP? Get him off the SCOTUS!

It's not without precedent in the GOP. In 1916, Associate Justice Charles Evans Hughes was convinced to leave the Court and run against Wilson, as a Progressive Republican (now an oxymoron). Hughes did so and a 3000 vote swing in California would have made him President. Hughes lost. He then went on to serve as Secretary of State under Harding, In 1930, Hoover nominated Hughes BACK to the SCOTUS, this time as Chief Justice where he served until 1941.

Of course, Hughes gave up his seat for a shot at POTUS, not the VP spot.
And LBJ talked Justice Arthur Goldberg into becoming UN ambassador so he could appoint his friend Abe Fortas to the Supreme Court. That didn't work out well for LBJ, Goldberg or Fortas.
You've got that mistaken. Fortas was an Associate Justice that LBJ nominated to replace Earl Warren. He nominated Homer Thornberry to replace Fortas as Associate Justice. I STILL don't know how the Republicans, in the minority, managed to not only block BOTH nominations, but force Fortas to resign. How the HELL did the Democrats let that happen? I was too young to understand the byzantine machinations, as I only turned 13 that summer (1968)
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2407
Trump Attacks Bragg, Judge Merchan Ahead Of Closing Arguments In Hush Money Trial

Former President Donald Trump spent the weekend attacking Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and Judge Juan Merchan as his New York hush money trial enters its final stages.

The defense rested its case last week without Trump taking the stand. Closing arguments are now scheduled to start Tuesday. Merchan will then give the 12 jurors instructions, which are expected to last an hour, before they can proceed with closed-door deliberations to reach a verdict in the case.

In a series of posts on his Truth Social platform, the former president once again complained about the charges leveled against him, claiming the entire case is led by his main rival in the 2024 race, President Joe Biden, in order to damage his chances in November.

“There is NO CASE, just a Democrat Persecutor controlled by Crooked Joe Biden’s White House, a Democrat Judge, and a biased venue,” Trump wrote Sunday. “This is nothing but an Election Interfering Witch Hunt, and the American People know it! MAGA2024.”

Trump faces 34 counts of falsifying business records over a hush money payment made to porn star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election. Trump has denied the affair and pleaded not guilty to all charges.

On Saturday, the former president also blasted special counsel Jack Smith for seeking a gag order for him in the classified documents case over his latest false allegations that FBI agents were prepared to shoot him during the 2022 raid on his Mar-a-Lago property.

“I guess they’re hoping they can silence me from telling the TRUTH like the Corrupt and Highly Conflicted Judge in New York City has done,” Trump wrote.

Prosecutors said Trump’s comments have “endangered law enforcement officers involved in the investigation and prosecution of this case and threatened the integrity of these proceedings.”

Trump has been charged with 40 felony counts, including conspiracy to obstruct justice, over his handling of classified documents after leaving the White House in January 2021. He has denied wrongdoing.

Smith is also prosecuting a second case against Trump over the former president’s efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-a ... 987c30fe87

TOS has never learned that when you are in deep trouble with the law, best thing to do is keep your mouth shut.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2409
CDFingers wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:26 am "Bailiff, whack his bank account."

on edit: if convicted in the Stormy trial, does he lose his right to vote and his further right to a firearm?

CDF
Which bank account? The one in the Grand Cayman or the Deutsche Bank maybe the one held with his son-in-law in Saudi Arabia.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2416
TOS has spoken that it is a travesty of justice and he is very innocent and this trial was a setup by the Biden Administration. Of course his lawyers will appeal.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2418
Now let's see if the judge will sentence him to jail time as should be. After letting the Orange Douche slide on multiple instances of blatant contempt of court I'll be surprised if he gets so much as a fine.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress. Hope is not a Plan.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2419
VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:08 pm Now let's see if the judge will sentence him to jail time as should be. After letting the Orange Douche slide on multiple instances of blatant contempt of court I'll be surprised if he gets so much as a fine.

VooDoo
He'll be fined, and he won't spend a penny of his own money paying it (if he ever pays).
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2420
Democrats will say Trump got exactly what was coming to him and Republicans will say it's pure politics and they'll disregard it as a conviction by a stacked jury. We see the reverse if and when Hunter Biden is convicted on the firearms and tax charges.

Now the case goes to the appellate division of the New York State Supreme Court, beyond that is the New York Court of Appeals and federal courts if his attorneys can get it there.
The judge before adjourning Thursday afternoon set Trump’s sentencing date for July 11 at 10 a.m. ET. He ordered parties in the case to file motions by June 13. The parties are expected to submit sentencing memos — in which each side presents arguments in favor of its preferred punishment — and other court filings. Trump will also likely sit for an interview with a probation officer for a pre-sentence report. The interview will likely include questions about Trump’s personal history and criminal record. The responses will be incorporated into a pre-sentence report for the judge, which includes sentencing recommendations for Merchan to consider. Trump’s attorneys may try to push his sentencing date later — possibly even after the Nov. 5 presidential election. But Merchan is unlikely to grant such a delay without a good reason, New York City defense lawyer Michael Bachner said. In the meantime, Trump will be free to speak to the press, travel and continue his presidential campaign. He will also no longer be bound by the gag order that barred him from discussing witnesses, jurors and the judge’s family members, among others.

Trump’s guilty verdict does not automatically make him a “convicted felon,” however. This label will not be accurate until after he is sentenced in July.

The charges against Trump are Class E felonies, the least serious category under New York law. Each count carries a maximum sentence of four years in prison. Trump’s sentence could include fines and restitution, probation or other conditions — but a sentence of imprisonment is not off the table. Merchan has broad discretion to determine Trump’s sentence, and he can factor all sorts of things into his final decision. Some of those factors, such as Trump’s age of 77 and his lack of a prior criminal record, will likely weigh in Trump’s favor.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/30/trump-g ... -next.html

Trump's lawyers could ask the judge to set aside the jury verdict, but it's doubtful they'd win.

A precedent has been set, expect future presidents to be investigated, indicted and convicted.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2421
He will not prevail on appeal due to weight of evidence against him. He will be convicted and sentenced then immediately lose his right to vote and bear arms.

Though I disagree with Highdesert that this sets any sort of precedence for future ex-presidents. 45 is an outlier in every respect and deserves sentencing after being found guilty by trial and jury. This was not a political hit by any means no matter how he would paint it to continue to claim innocence. Prison is filled with convicted felons who claim innocence till the day they die.
Last edited by Bisbee on Thu May 30, 2024 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2423
CDFingers wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:42 pm Still, he's a rat fink. The king is a fink.


CDF
Cheers to this! I do admit to a little gloating.

Overall, I think this has been a very bad strategy. In light of the whole record of what a disgusting person he is, these charges were a desperate hope that something sticks on the scale of the shit I'm personally certain he's guilty of. It will absolutely add to the witchhunt persona and continuing division of our country. But, whatevs.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

2424
It's confusing about his voting rights.
A felony conviction in another state makes a person ineligible to vote in Florida only if the conviction would make the person ineligible to vote in the state where the person was convicted.
https://www.usvotefoundation.org/voting ... on/florida.
A new [NY] law passed in 2021, restores the right to vote for a person convicted of a felony upon release from incarceration, regardless of if they are on parole or have a term of post-release supervision. If a convicted felon is not incarcerated, they are eligible to register to vote.
https://elections.ny.gov/voting-after-incarceration
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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