Re: "Trump booed and heckled by raucous crowd at Libertarian convention"

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CowboyT wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 8:12 pm
Bisbee wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 12:34 am Cowboy, I have a question I am struggling with. You seem to play by the rule books and believe that hypocrisy is unacceptable. But the GQP doesn’t believe that. 45 could give a rats ass about lying to your face. How do you contend with unscrupulous opponents who strive to win at all costs? Any insights?
I can understand the question, and thank you for asking it in a civilized manner. Here's my answer.

I have discovered, to my dismay, that politicians--generally--will lie to your face so long as it gets them elected/re-elected. They'll do anything, legal or otherwise, to stay on the gravy train. And I've found that it doesn't matter whether the politician is a Democrat or a Republican. I'd say Biden and Trump have lied through their teeth time and again, and I am disappointed in both of them in roughly equal measure. Sadly, even Obama has disappointed me quite an amount after his first year, and that is saying something, given that he is our first Black President. I really wanted to be a fan of his, maybe more than you know. Same applies for Clinton; he's a liar, too. Far as I'm concerned, the only Presidents that have shown us any decent modicum of honesty in my lifetime are Presidents Ford and Carter. We need more of those two, I think.

The problem that I see in predominately Democrat circles is that the supporters don't want to acknowledge the faults of "their tribe", and a lot of their dialogue reflects this. This is true not just here on the LGC forums, but elsewhere that I've been, both in person and online.

See, it helps me to be a bit more objective because though a Liberal I may be, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. Rather, I am an Independent. Both of the two big parties disgust me in roughly equal measure, and neither one of them is what I would call Liberal.

So, while Trump may spout whatever he thinks, whether it's true or not, and I don't like it, I likewise hold Biden to the same standard. When Biden said, and I quote, "Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black", that's just as bad to me as when Hillary Clinton talked about "hard working Americans, White Americans" in 2008 in her run against Obama. And the media folks largely gave him a "pass" on that one. Oh, sure, they mentioned it once so they could say, "oh, yeah, we reported on that", but then...crickets. Biden says he's a friend to Black people? Then why did he oppose school integration, as Kamala Harris rightly criticized him about during the 2020 Democrat Primary?

That's the sort of things that Democrat supporters don't want pointed out, but yet they seem giddy to point out the faults of "the other tribe". That's hypocritical and inappropriate.

So, how do I contend with unscrupulous opponents who want to win at all cost? I go to primary sources whenever possible and find out what's really going on. Here's an example of that.

My wife is an evangelical Christian, Conservative, card-carrying Republican. I am an Independent San Francisco Liberal. We love each other and are very careful never to devolve into ad-hominem attacks against each other. In short, we respect each other. That's why our marriage works.

There was a time when she believed a right-wing narrative that then-Attorney General Eric Holder had said that any opposition to then-President Obama was racist and anti-Black. She believed it. So, I asked her if she would find the primary source for this, i. e. where he actually said that on audio or video. She was unable to find it. So, I went looking for it to see if it were true. I found what he actually said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgEoak20mLI

This is straight from the actual interview, thus the primary source. So, no, AG Holder didn't make a blanket statement about all White people who opposed Obama are automatically racist. I showed this to her, and she got it.

It's gone the other way as well, where Conservatives have shown me things about, say, NPR. So, I looked it up and found out for myself whether what they were saying was true or not. I found the primary sources, and sadly, it was true, and I had to change my tune about NPR. That really sucked, because I used to like and admire them.

That's how I handle it. Just good ol' critical thinking, as best as I can.
Sounds a lot like James Carville, a Democratic consultant and political gadfly and his wife Mary Matalin, a Republican consultant. They've been married since 1993. My mother was a Chicago Democrat and my father was a western Michigan Republican and they were married for decades and survived differences in politics and religion. I'm sure you and your wife will survive this hyper-partisan era.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: "Trump booed and heckled by raucous crowd at Libertarian convention"

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highdesert wrote: Tue May 28, 2024 8:29 am Sounds a lot like James Carville, a Democratic consultant and political gadfly and his wife Mary Matalin, a Republican consultant. They've been married since 1993. My mother was a Chicago Democrat and my father was a western Michigan Republican and they were married for decades and survived differences in politics and religion. I'm sure you and your wife will survive this hyper-partisan era.
Indeed, that's the very analogy that we often use with people when they learn our politics! We both are quite disappointed in the extreme left-wing and extreme rignt-wing getting almost all the press and thus the political power in the Democrat and Republican Parties, respectively.

That's one reason why I go to gun shows. I want to meet these "evil Conservatives" in person and find out if they're really so evil. I've found that, by and large, they're not, despite the hype. Likewise, not everyone who consideres him or herself a "Progressive" or who votes for Democrats is a Hillary Clinton-loving White feminist racist who will "SWAT" a non-White person just for being there. They most definitely exist, oh yes...but it's not all.

I think we all would do very well to remember that a lot more often.
"SF Liberal With A Gun + Free Software Advocate"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/
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