Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

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Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#1 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:03 pm

Update in Post #11.

S.102 Reduces maximum capacity of ammunition magazines to 10 rounds.
Sponsored by:
Senator LORETTA WEINBERG
District 37 (Bergen)
Senator NIA H. GILL
District 34 (Essex and Passaic)
Co-Sponsored by:
Senators Gopal and Greenstein

S.160 Requires firearms seizure when mental health professional determines patient poses threat of harm to self or others.
Sponsored by:
Senator VIN GOPAL
District 11 (Monmouth)
Senator JOSEPH P. CRYAN
District 20 (Union)
Co-Sponsored by:
Senators Scutari and Turner

S.2245 Prohibits possession of ammunition capable of penetrating body armor.
Senator FRED H. MADDEN, JR.
District 4 (Camden and Gloucester)
Senator LINDA R. GREENSTEIN
District 14 (Mercer and Middlesex)

S.2259 “Extreme Risk Protective Order Act of 2018.”
Sponsored by:
Senator RICHARD J. CODEY
District 27 (Essex and Morris)
Senator LORETTA WEINBERG
District 37 (Bergen)
Co-Sponsored by:
Senators Singleton and Turner

S.2374 Requires background check for private gun sales.
Sponsored by:
Senator LINDA R. GREENSTEIN
District 14 (Mercer and Middlesex)
Co-Sponsored by:
Senator Turner

S.2376 Codifies regulations defining justifiable need to carry handgun.
Sponsored by:
Senator LINDA R. GREENSTEIN
District 14 (Mercer and Middlesex)
Co-Sponsored by:
Senator Turner

There are companion Assembly bills and, I assume, Republicans on board.
Last edited by DispositionMatrix on Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#2 Post by Eris » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Bans ammunition "capable" of penetrating body armor? So basically all hunting rounds, right?

[EDIT] OK I jumped the gun. The bill specifically calls out armor piercing pistol rounds. Also hollow points, for some reason.
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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#3 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:24 pm

Eris wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:16 pm
Bans ammunition "capable" of penetrating body armor? So basically all hunting rounds, right?

[EDIT] OK I jumped the gun. The bill specifically calls out armor piercing pistol rounds. Also hollow points, for some reason.
NJ POSSESSION OF AMMUNITION LAWYER
Because there's nothing more dangerous than an ammunition lawyer.
Illegal Types of Ammunition in New Jersey
Body Armor Penetrating Bullets
New Jersey strictly prohibits the possession of body armor penetrating bullets if you are not a law enforcement officer or a member of the armed forces on active duty or traveling to or from a location of active duty. The possession of body armor penetrating bullets is considered a fourth degree crime, as explained in section N.J.S.2C:39-6 of the New Jersey Criminal Code, which addresses Possession of Prohibited Weapons and Devices. Fourth degree crimes may result in a term of incarceration of up to 18 months for those convicted.
Hollow Nose or Hollow Point Bullets
In New Jersey, it is also illegal to possess hollow nose or hollow point bullets unless you are engaged in one of the activities that are considered “exemptions.” These include: hunting, fishing, and target shooting. You may also possess hollow nose or hollow point bullets on your personal property or while traveling to or from a point of purchase. Possession of hollow nose or hollow point bullets is considered a fourth degree crime, punishable by a sentence to serve up to 18 months in New Jersey State Prison.

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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#4 Post by VodoundaVinci » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:16 pm

Man. The Oligarchy is really terrified of weapons, isn't it? Ya gotta wonder why?

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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#5 Post by DougMasters » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:50 pm

Man, that smells like fear.

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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#6 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:32 pm

Actually, the ONLY statute that affects most law-abiding gun-owners is the drop from 15 to 10 round capacity. RTSP is posting that if you've ordered a firearm through them, and it has a >10 round mag, they will block it down to 10 rounds and charge you $15. It's not clear if modifying magazines to limit them will still be legal.
It would be incredibly stupid because all Sig does is add a dimple on each side of the mag. to make it compliant. I would pay to have my 15 round mags made compliant.
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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#7 Post by DispositionMatrix » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:27 am

DougMasters wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:50 pm
Man, that smells like fear.
More like retribution. As if New Jersey needs more firearm laws.

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NJ gun control: Lawmakers vote to expand background checks, limit magazines

#8 Post by DispositionMatrix » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:12 am

NJ gun control: Lawmakers vote to expand background checks, limit magazines
New Jersey’s already strict gun laws could get even stricter when Gov. Phil Murphy signs off on a package of bills lawmakers approved Thursday, measures advanced after the shooting in February that left 17 people dead at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

The bills include new restrictions on bullets, background checks and magazine sizes, and Murphy has said he would sign the bills.

"New Jersey is one executive decision away from enacting the strongest gun laws in the nation," said Assembly Majority Leader Louis D. Greenwald, D-Camden. "The journey to creating stronger gun laws that will keep our communities safe, unfortunately, has been a long, arduous one, yet I am proud to say we are close to the finish line."

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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#9 Post by TrueTexan » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:57 am

Just another state I didn't want to visit anyway.
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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#10 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:07 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:57 am
Just another state I didn't want to visit anyway.
As a transplant to NJ myself, and not a native (grew up in NY, north of the City), I much prefer it to NY or CT.

I keep saying this: The ONLY law that actually affects most gun owners is the drop in mag cap which isn't very logical because 10 rounds is not much different than 15. How hard is it to carry 2 extra mags of 10 with one in the gun, or 1 mag of 15 and one in the gun?
So I shrug in disgust, bought my 10 rounders before the big rush, and now will wait to see what shakes out over the next 6 months--if it stands or if it's thrown out, or what.
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Re: New Jersey Senate Democrats' gun prohibition bills clear committee

#11 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:51 am

Six bills signed by Murphy yesterday.
Murphy vows N.J. will be 'a leader in the fight' for gun control
New Jersey already has a reputation for having some of the tightest gun laws in the U.S. But gun control advocates may soon be able to boast the Garden State is the most stringent of any state.

Gov. Phil Murphy signed a half-dozen new measures into law Wednesday -- which will reduce magazine capacity, ban armor-piercing bullets, make it tougher to obtain a permit to carry a handgun, expand background checks on private gun sales, and keep firearms out of the hands of people deemed a threat to themselves and others in New Jersey.

"We are going to be a leader in the fight for common-sense gun safety," the Democratic governor declared at the bill-signing ceremony at the Hughes Justice Complex in Trenton. "New Jersey will lead."
A1217
A1181
A2758
A2757
A2759
A2761


ANJRPC SUES TO OVERTURN NEW MAGAZINE BAN, WITHIN MINUTES OF IT BEING SIGNED BY GOVERNOR
June 13, 2018 — Before the ink from Governor Murphy’s pen was dry on newly enacted legislation banning firearms magazines above ten rounds, ANJRPC filed suit in federal court to overturn the new law.

“This unconstitutional law will be ignored by criminals and madmen, and affects only law-abiding citizens,” said ANJRPC executive director Scott Bach. “It turns one million people into criminals with the stroke of a pen, limits self-defense, and takes away property lawfully acquired,” continued Bach. “Buy it yesterday, ban it today, go to prison tomorrow – it’s the Jersey way, and the goal of our lawsuit is to boot this law, which makes no one safer, into the trash heap of history where it belongs.”

ANJRPC’s lawsuit highlights the many constitutional infirmities in New Jersey’s magazine ban. A federal court in California recently enjoined the operation of a similar magazine ban and ANJRPC believes New Jersey’s ban will meet a similar end – especially if the case reaches the United States Supreme Court. A link to the complaint in the case is available on ANJRPC’s website at www.anjrpc.org

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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#12 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am

If you actually read the bills, the hollow point ban STILL allows you to buy it, and possess it at your residence.

The armor-piercing ban is basically the same as the Federal ban, and doesn't apply to rifle rounds but to handgun ammo.

The reduction of the former magazine limit from 15 rounds to 10 rounds has a 180 day grace period to dispose or, sell out of state, permanently limit them to 10 rounds, or surrender the formerly legal 15 round magazines. We are NOT instantly criminals. I presume we cannot USE the 15 round magazines any more. By my calculation, 180 days from 13 June 2018 is 10 December 2018. This is, by far, the single most onerous of the laws for most gun owners, because we must either purchase anew or (presumably) pay to have our no-longer compliant magazines adapted. In the meantime, I'd like very much to know how the ANJRPC's lawsuit progresses prior to deciding what to do with my 15 round magazines.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#13 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:56 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am
If you actually read the bills,...
You would need to take that up with someone who has not read the bills.


A2758 doesn't look like much help for those who think the bear part of the right to keep and bear arms should apply to them. The justifiable need clause already was a problem.

Regarding A1181, the definition of "mental health professionals" looks a bit broad and is used in conjunction with "...a reasonable professional in the practitioner's area of expertise would believe..."

A2757 includes "(b) between law enforcement officers;" under both 1 and 2.

A2759 exempts LEOs.

A2761 exempts LEOs.

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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#14 Post by rascally » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm

So, hollow point ammo AND armor piercing ammo are BOTH being banned?

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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#15 Post by AndyH » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm

So...self-defense ammo can be purchased, taken home, and kept or used in one's home or property, but not in public...and the retailer has to keep of log of your purchase?

And...slingshots? Seriously?

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2018/Bills ... 245_I1.HTM
1. N.J.S.2C:39-3 is amended to read as follows:

2C:39-3. Prohibited Weapons and Devices.

a. Destructive devices. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any destructive device is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

b. Sawed-off shotguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any sawed-off shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

c. Silencers. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm silencer is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

d. Defaced firearms. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any firearm which has been defaced, except an antique firearm or an antique handgun, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

e. Certain weapons. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any gravity knife, switchblade knife, dagger, dirk, stiletto, billy, blackjack, metal knuckle, sandclub, slingshot, cestus, or similar leather band studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood, ballistic knife, without any explainable lawful purpose, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

f. Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in [Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13)] 18 U.S.C. s.921 (a)(13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco [and] Firearms[,] and Explosives who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means: (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than .025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and (c) is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, or (3) any person, other than a law enforcement officer, who knowingly has in his possession handgun ammunition which has a full metal jacket and an ogive with a steel penetrator tip followed by an aluminum core and is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of [this section] paragraph (2) of this subsection, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

g. Exceptions. (1) Nothing in subsection a., b., c., d., e., f., j., or k. of this section shall apply to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or except as otherwise provided, to any law enforcement officer while actually on duty or traveling to or from an authorized place of duty, provided that his possession of the prohibited weapon or device has been duly authorized under the applicable laws, regulations or military or law enforcement orders. Nothing in subsection h. of this section shall apply to any law enforcement officer who is exempted from the provisions of that subsection by the Attorney General. Nothing in this section shall apply to the possession of any weapon or device by a law enforcement officer who has confiscated, seized or otherwise taken possession of [said] the weapon or device as evidence of the commission of a crime or because he believed it to be possessed illegally by the person from whom it was taken, provided that [said] the law enforcement officer promptly notifies his superiors of his possession of [such] the prohibited weapon or device.

(2) a. Nothing in paragraph (1) of subsection f. [(1)] shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping [such] that ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying [such] that ammunition from the place of purchase to [said] that dwelling or land, nor shall paragraph (1) of subsection f. [(1)] be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing [such] that ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of [any such] that ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age, and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#16 Post by Darwinchip » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:16 pm

AndyH wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm
And...slingshots? Seriously?
Can't have Dennis the Menace and early Bart Simpson running amok on the streets!
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#17 Post by AndyH » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:35 pm

Darwinchip wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:16 pm
AndyH wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm
And...slingshots? Seriously?
Can't have Dennis the Menace and early Bart Simpson running amok on the streets!
Right? Thankfully Joi-sey is small and easily driven around. :lol:
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#18 Post by AndyH » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:38 pm

I can't tell if this is gun restriction mania or subliminal marketing. Is FN in NJ?**

The new laws are making me want to get an FN Five-Seven... :blink:
Police officers have encountered a new and highly destructive bullet. The SS190AP ammunition for the Five-seven Tactical handgun is uniquely designed. It is a full metal jacketed bullet, but utilizes two metal inserts. The tip of the bullet has a steel penetrator which is followed by an aluminum core. The weight relationship between the two metals causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue, resulting in massive and, in many instances, deadly wounds.

In addition to the substantial body trauma these bullets can cause, they are a special threat to the law enforcement community because when the SS190AP bullet is fired from the Five-seven handgun, it can penetrate 48 layers of Kevlar, the protective material used to make many types of body armor.
They say 'body armor' but don't say what type (except for the Kevlar reference). Four out of five .22 'magnums' will be stopped by class 3A soft armor...that doesn't leave us much if the goal is just "peons must not have ammo-nitions that can put holes in vestseses"...

https://youtu.be/ia1k1Zg4l2A?t=3m55s

**Nope, VA and SC. Mania, I guess.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#19 Post by featureless » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:06 pm

AndyH wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm

And...slingshots? Seriously?
Well, David did take down Goliath with a sling(shot), so obviously an assault weapon. Must ban.

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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#20 Post by Inquisitor » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:12 pm

Darwinchip wrote:
AndyH wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm
And...slingshots? Seriously?
Can't have Dennis the Menace and early Bart Simpson running amok on the streets!
Slingshots have been illegal in MA since 98 I believe.


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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#21 Post by highdesert » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:54 pm

S 160
Requires firearms seizure when mental health professional determines patient poses threat of harm to self or others.
It totally bypasses the courts, the clinician just notifies law enforcement directly. It's the clients word against the clinicians, I'd like to see a judicial determination. If the person has threatened to kill someone else then by all means notify law enforcement and bring it to court. If the client is suicidal, a court should decide if that is a reason to remove firearms. I don't see suicide as necessarily bad.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#22 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 pm

Inquisitor wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:12 pm
Darwinchip wrote:
AndyH wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm
And...slingshots? Seriously?
Can't have Dennis the Menace and early Bart Simpson running amok on the streets!
Slingshots have been illegal in MA since 98 I believe.


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They are also illegal in The Bahamas, as are ALL handguns by citizens. I don't believe that's a new addition. BTW, the "armor piercing" ammo restriction ONLY applies to handguns.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#23 Post by AndyH » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:36 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:52 pm
BTW, the "armor piercing" ammo restriction ONLY applies to handguns.
The way it's written, it seems to be spotlighting the referenced FN 5.7 round. One of many problems, though, is that by not specifying what type or protection level vest, it leaves it wide open. As I noted above, a 40 grain 22 magnum will penetrate a 3A vest. There are other standard handgun rounds that will as well - rounds that are not designated as 'armor piercing'. And that's before we get to things like AR and AK-based pistols...

This seems like a nice gift to police (add-on charge?) rather than an attempt to actually solve a problem.
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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#24 Post by DispositionMatrix » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:30 pm

"Our work is far from done," Murphy added. "Let's continue to work on this together. Vote in November for candidates who continue to support common-sense gun reform."

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Re: Gov. Murphy signs New Jersey Democrats' gun prohibition bills into law

#25 Post by AndyH » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:35 pm

Banning SS190AP and other 'armor piercing' handgun rounds won't automagically make 3A soft armor effective against rounds that are smaller and travel faster than 9mm or .45.

“There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.” Heinlein
You can’t take the Razorback! She is gone and gone and gone!

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