Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

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StopCollaborate
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Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#1 Post by StopCollaborate » Wed May 16, 2018 4:42 pm

Paid for an hour of time at the local range I’m not a member at, because they have an “unlimited rentals for $10” thing, and I’m researching for my first CCW, primarily looking at single stack 9’s. Here’s my thoughts.

M&P Shield — slide feels awkward to rack, trigger is not comfortable for me, hate how I can’t use the slide release to chamber a round or simply close it. Fairly tight group though. Maybe I should try the 2.0, though I didn’t like the grip when I previously tried the full size.

LC9S — shot a really tight group, easy racking, high recoil but not awful, probably good for one handed. Simply not enough grip for two handed, but I’d consider it maybe as a backup.

Glock 43 — potato aim, leery about the plastic magazine. Grip was ok, sights are...Glock sights. Double stack Glocks feel like bricks to me so no 26.

XDE — I have a XD mod 2 Tactical so it felt comfortable and I was used to the sights. Unsure of how to decock it (should have asked) so I only tried it in SA. Nice and comfy but not sure if I want to go hammer quite yet.

Walther PPS M2 — Front sight was missing the dot (yay rental), but it felt great with the mid sized mag, easy rack, good mag release, manageable recoil. Felt substantial. My favorite so far, and I can find the LE edition (3 mags and phosphorus sights) for $350 at multiple places.

Fun rentals to waste ammo:
Beretta Px4 Storm C — hated the slide safety, makes it painful to rack and I could see it getting caught on things. Shot good though.
CZ P10-C — my favorite trigger reset of the day, substantial, tight group, overly big rear sights, really aggressive grip. Still fun.

Tl;dr, I like the Walther PPS M2. May rent it at my member range for some more detailed evaluation before I make a buying decision. Anyone have opinions on that?

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#2 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed May 16, 2018 4:46 pm

The new Sig P365 is now out--my LGS has...one (roll eyes). Doesn't Walther also have a CCP in 9mm?
And H-K has both the P30sk and the VP9sk.

I liked the Walther PPQ very much.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#3 Post by StopCollaborate » Wed May 16, 2018 4:51 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:46 pm
The new Sig P365 is now out--my LGS has...one (roll eyes). Doesn't Walther also have a CCP in 9mm?
And H-K has both the P30sk and the VP9sk.

I liked the Walther PPQ very much.
The CCP doesn’t look like something I’d want, as there was a recall recently and apparently needs a tool to take down.


Saw the P365 but I really hate Sig triggers, and they’re more expensive than I want. Loved the full size VP9 but damn HK is expensive, plus they had none of the CCPs available.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#4 Post by leftneck » Wed May 16, 2018 5:05 pm

Have you tried a Glock 19? I know it's not a single stack, but I've had occasion to tote all sorts of guns, including in some environments where getting made would have been severely detrimental to my health. I find that most people can conceal a 19 pretty easily. For most hand sizes, it's got just enough grip size to make the gun easy to run at speed.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#5 Post by StopCollaborate » Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 pm

leftneck wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:05 pm
Have you tried a Glock 19? I know it's not a single stack, but I've had occasion to tote all sorts of guns, including in some environments where getting made would have been severely detrimental to my health. I find that most people can conceal a 19 pretty easily. For most hand sizes, it's got just enough grip size to make the gun easy to run at speed.
I just haven’t had a good experience with Glocks yet. I tried the 17 when I was researching my first gun a couple months ago, and had garbage aim with it. My friend has a 19 and we’ve been meaning to hit the range sometime, so maybe we should speed that along.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#6 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed May 16, 2018 8:39 pm

StopCollaborate wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:51 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:46 pm
The new Sig P365 is now out--my LGS has...one (roll eyes). Doesn't Walther also have a CCP in 9mm?
And H-K has both the P30sk and the VP9sk.

I liked the Walther PPQ very much.
The CCP doesn’t look like something I’d want, as there was a recall recently and apparently needs a tool to take down.


Saw the P365 but I really hate Sig triggers, and they’re more expensive than I want. Loved the full size VP9 but damn HK is expensive, plus they had none of the CCPs available.
Don't get what you don't like. I'm a big believer in that!
I've got a VP9 and a Sig P320, but with the new "Voluntary Upgrade" trigger and while I'm not really cognizant of trigger subtleties, the new "upgrade" is noticeably better than the original. It's more comfortable and I shoot better with it. I still like the VP9 better than the Sig but the Sig is now nearly as nice a shooter.

I'm surprised you can't find either of their SKs, either in hammer (p30) or striker (VP9). Both get RAVE reviews, and I've shot the full size hammer, the p30, and it was just as nice as my VP9. If I were to go for a hammer-fired it would be an H-K or a Beretta 92.

Can't talk cost.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#7 Post by StopCollaborate » Wed May 16, 2018 9:29 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:39 pm
StopCollaborate wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:51 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:46 pm
The new Sig P365 is now out--my LGS has...one (roll eyes). Doesn't Walther also have a CCP in 9mm?
And H-K has both the P30sk and the VP9sk.

I liked the Walther PPQ very much.
The CCP doesn’t look like something I’d want, as there was a recall recently and apparently needs a tool to take down.


Saw the P365 but I really hate Sig triggers, and they’re more expensive than I want. Loved the full size VP9 but damn HK is expensive, plus they had none of the CCPs available.
Don't get what you don't like. I'm a big believer in that!
I've got a VP9 and a Sig P320, but with the new "Voluntary Upgrade" trigger and while I'm not really cognizant of trigger subtleties, the new "upgrade" is noticeably better than the original. It's more comfortable and I shoot better with it. I still like the VP9 better than the Sig but the Sig is now nearly as nice a shooter.

I'm surprised you can't find either of their SKs, either in hammer (p30) or striker (VP9). Both get RAVE reviews, and I've shot the full size hammer, the p30, and it was just as nice as my VP9. If I were to go for a hammer-fired it would be an H-K or a Beretta 92.

Can't talk cost.
Haven’t looked super hard for the VP9SK simply cause it’s like $800, and high cost does not necessarily equal that much better quality. I’m still researching and finding reviews because the price of the PPS seems too good to be true at the moment.

Edit: damn, forgot that Springfield has their 3 mag deals going on still. Might have to look at the XD subcompact...

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#8 Post by ba1970 » Thu May 17, 2018 1:31 am

How about the Smith & Wesson M&P 9c? It's not a double stack. It's very concealable. Check her out. I have the 1.0. Love it!

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#9 Post by atxgunguy » Thu May 17, 2018 8:37 am

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:39 pm
StopCollaborate wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:51 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:46 pm
The new Sig P365 is now out--my LGS has...one (roll eyes). Doesn't Walther also have a CCP in 9mm?
And H-K has both the P30sk and the VP9sk.

I liked the Walther PPQ very much.
The CCP doesn’t look like something I’d want, as there was a recall recently and apparently needs a tool to take down.


Saw the P365 but I really hate Sig triggers, and they’re more expensive than I want. Loved the full size VP9 but damn HK is expensive, plus they had none of the CCPs available.
Don't get what you don't like. I'm a big believer in that!
I've got a VP9 and a Sig P320, but with the new "Voluntary Upgrade" trigger and while I'm not really cognizant of trigger subtleties, the new "upgrade" is noticeably better than the original. It's more comfortable and I shoot better with it. I still like the VP9 better than the Sig but the Sig is now nearly as nice a shooter.

I'm surprised you can't find either of their SKs, either in hammer (p30) or striker (VP9). Both get RAVE reviews, and I've shot the full size hammer, the p30, and it was just as nice as my VP9. If I were to go for a hammer-fired it would be an H-K or a Beretta 92.

Can't talk cost.
Mechanically, the VP9SK is identical in every way to the full-size VP9. Same slide, trigger, and sight configuration. I do understand the sticker-shock, but H&Ks are definitely in the, "buy once, cry once" category. The VP9 is my best shooting (YMMV) 9mm I own and I plan on getting the SK at some point.

Keep in mind the added weight of a double vs. single stack.

The Shield 2.0 is more comparable Glock 19, both are also double-stacks unlike the Shield 1.0. The Shield 1.0 takes some practice getting good at, but it's fairly easy to pick up.

That said, as ubiquitous as the Glock 19 is...it just works. You can't argue with form/function. After firing the Glock 17, 23, 30, 34, and 43 it's still the Gold Standard of capacity and weight. If it's your carry gun, I'd definitely upgrade to night sights. Most Glock fanboys have moved on to the Gen 5, so you can get gently used Gen 4s for under $500.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#10 Post by BillMcD » Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am

Just keep in mind that a CCW doesn't have to be a snub nose, single stack pistol. It needs to be a pistol you can depend on no matter what though.

I have a glock 19 that I've modified a little. Got one of those Streamlight tlr-6's on it and some night sights that aren't glock sights. I also put a cleaner lever in there to help smooth out the trigger. This said, In some regards I wish I could have found a nicer pistol to start with, but when reliability was concern number 1, and cost was concern number 2, I got a glock as it was what cycled every time.

Don't take this as me pushing a glock. Its a crap pistol that takes work (damn trigger creep) and a new set of sights for it to actually be a nice pistol, and it will still be a block. If you find something that works great out of the gate and is reliable for you, go for it. Just remember, Dependability is your number one concern.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#11 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu May 17, 2018 8:59 am

The VP9s have the "weird" paddle-type mag release that most people seem to hate. I actually think it works better and is more natural.

Glocks were not my first choice, but they were definitely on my list, and I liked the 19 more than the 17. The good thing about Glocks is they have more available after-market upgrades. The bad thing is you probably need them--like replacing the sights.
You can't go wrong with a Glock, but, IMHO, you can do better. My understanding, though, is you probably want a Gen 4 or Gen 5, not any earlier.

I agree with Atxgunguy that you'll swallow hard at the price of buying an H-K, but you won't regret it. It's still a lot less than many revolvers--S&Ws and even Chiappas can cost more than a VP9.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#12 Post by StopCollaborate » Thu May 17, 2018 2:31 pm

I need to see if there are other places around that have a VP9SK for rental...I don’t think my member range does. I do have a NSSF 5-star range/store about a 35 minute drive away so I may head up there sometime.

Positive my range has a 19 for rental, maybe I can just take an hour and shoot it; all my Glock experience has been a mag or two before I decided it wasn’t for me. I’m just not sure I’m willing to go that big for a carry gun yet.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#13 Post by Hiker » Thu May 17, 2018 3:19 pm

I would invite you to try out a Kahr pistol. Kahr was founded to make conceal carry pistols and nothing else. They don't make AR-15's or 1911s. They put lots of engineering into their pistols. They are very slim, only 0.9 inches thick. I LOVE mine!!!
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#14 Post by danhue » Thu May 17, 2018 7:40 pm

The truth is that small guns, great for CCW, are just not that much fun to shoot. They're uncomfortable and hard to shoot well.

I have a Sig P938, because I like the SA design. My second choice would have been the Kahr CM9, but that was just based on recommendation because I have never had a chance to fire one. I did try the Springfield SDS, but did not care for the harshly stippled grip. The XDE was very good, and a strong contender. I also tried an HK P30 SK, and if it was not for it being a bit too beefy for my first carry gun, I think that would have been my top choice. A similar size gun that I only dry-fired but seemed excellent was the Bersa Thunder Pro Ultra Carry (since discontinued and replaced with the TPCR). The trigger on the Bersa was simply amazing.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#15 Post by StopCollaborate » Thu May 17, 2018 8:12 pm

danhue wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:40 pm
The truth is that small guns, great for CCW, are just not that much fun to shoot. They're uncomfortable and hard to shoot well.
See I actually found the PPS to be quite comfortable and rather fun; I put more rounds through it than all the other ones I tried. I may still try an XDS if I can find a Mod 2, since I already have an XD mod 2.

I do understand why it’s hard to shoot well; the LC9S was very accurate but it hurt my hands because there’s no grip surface area.

Also update: friend has a Glock 17, not a 19. Sad day.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#16 Post by featureless » Thu May 17, 2018 9:27 pm

Did the LC9 have the "extended" mag for your pinky or the flush fit?

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#17 Post by StopCollaborate » Thu May 17, 2018 9:41 pm

featureless wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:27 pm
Did the LC9 have the "extended" mag for your pinky or the flush fit?
Oh definitely the extended. I wouldn’t have touched it otherwise.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#18 Post by featureless » Thu May 17, 2018 10:57 pm

:) I have the LC380 and it's ok with the extended mag but just barely.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#19 Post by Bucolic » Fri May 18, 2018 6:33 am

Has anyone mentioned the Sig 938? If not, you might consider one.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#20 Post by AndyH » Fri May 18, 2018 4:06 pm

BillMcD wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am
Just keep in mind that a CCW doesn't have to be a snub nose, single stack pistol. It needs to be a pistol you can depend on no matter what though.

I have a glock 19 that I've modified a little. Got one of those Streamlight tlr-6's on it and some night sights that aren't glock sights. I also put a cleaner lever in there to help smooth out the trigger. This said, In some regards I wish I could have found a nicer pistol to start with, but when reliability was concern number 1, and cost was concern number 2, I got a glock as it was what cycled every time.

Don't take this as me pushing a glock. Its a crap pistol that takes work (damn trigger creep) and a new set of sights for it to actually be a nice pistol, and it will still be a block. If you find something that works great out of the gate and is reliable for you, go for it. Just remember, Dependability is your number one concern.
What's the mission for your now modified Glock? Why a light and night sights? What trigger mod did you do? thanks.
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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#21 Post by BillMcD » Sat May 19, 2018 12:23 pm

AndyH wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 4:06 pm
BillMcD wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:46 am
Just keep in mind that a CCW doesn't have to be a snub nose, single stack pistol. It needs to be a pistol you can depend on no matter what though.

I have a glock 19 that I've modified a little. Got one of those Streamlight tlr-6's on it and some night sights that aren't glock sights. I also put a cleaner lever in there to help smooth out the trigger. This said, In some regards I wish I could have found a nicer pistol to start with, but when reliability was concern number 1, and cost was concern number 2, I got a glock as it was what cycled every time.

Don't take this as me pushing a glock. Its a crap pistol that takes work (damn trigger creep) and a new set of sights for it to actually be a nice pistol, and it will still be a block. If you find something that works great out of the gate and is reliable for you, go for it. Just remember, Dependability is your number one concern.
What's the mission for your now modified Glock? Why a light and night sights? What trigger mod did you do? thanks.
Its always been the "in case of emergency grab this" pistol. the light/laser is small and fits in some unmolded holsters without too much trouble. The trigger mod was a ghost lever and some polishing trying to get rid of trigger sponge when I'm practicing (evidently the wrong way to go about that, but apparently i need to keep the sponge). The uptake is a bit lighter but there is no "wall", just a heavier mush.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#22 Post by polymath » Tue May 22, 2018 6:28 pm

I bought a single stack 9 (Honor Guard) and it's fine for what it is, but I ended up moving to a double-stack because the slim grip was too small for me to shoot well. My fingers were getting in the way of each other trying to find a way to get some contact on the frame. I agree that the double-stack Glocks aren't very good in the hand, but if you haven't tried other similar guns (e.g. M&P Compact?), it might be worth your time to do so. I'm happy with a CZ P-01 Omega these days.

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Re: Range rentals, OR The Search For A CCW

#23 Post by atxgunguy » Wed May 23, 2018 8:20 am

BillMcD wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:23 pm

Its always been the "in case of emergency grab this" pistol. the light/laser is small and fits in some unmolded holsters without too much trouble. The trigger mod was a ghost lever and some polishing trying to get rid of trigger sponge when I'm practicing (evidently the wrong way to go about that, but apparently i need to keep the sponge). The uptake is a bit lighter but there is no "wall", just a heavier mush.
I think I have the one Glock 19 (Gen 4) that didn't have factory-issued spongy trigger. I bought it gently used from someone who got buyers remorse for not waiting a week for the CZ P10c to arrive at our LGS. It had maybe 100 rounds through it before I bought it and still had the Glock factory grease in the slide.
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