Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

Talk about anything you like but keep it civil. This is a public forum, the views and opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the LGC.

Moderators: admin, Inquisitor, ForumModerator, WebsiteContent

Message
Author
User avatar
TrueTexan
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:28 pm
Location: LGC MEMBER: The "Crazy" part of Denton Texas
Contact:

Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#1 Post by TrueTexan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 pm

Authorities are responding to a massive fire at Paris’ Notre Dame cathedral, where video posted to social media shows the historic monument appearing nearly engulfed in smoke and flames.

Firefighters responded to the scene around 7 p.m. local time on Monday, Le Monde reported.

The gravity of the fire is still to be determined, but firefighters told the local news outlet that the blaze was in the cathedral’s attic.

One video appears to show the monument’s towering spire collapse as onlookers gasp from down below.

The fire is “potentially linked” to renovation work in the building, firefighters told Agence France-Presse.

Paris’ Mayor Anne Hidalgo shared photos of the fire on Twitter and urged the public to keep a safe distance. France’s President Emmanuel Macron postponed a major speech Monday evening due to the incident, according to AFP.

The medieval Catholic cathedral, famous for its French Gothic architecture, is more than 856 years old with construction having begun in 1163, according to its website.

The monument, which does not charge admission, sees approximately 13 million visitors per year. Financial efforts to restore and preserve the church have been underway for some time amid concerns that it is eroding and crumbling.

Such restoration efforts led to last week’s removal of several copper statues representing the 12 apostles and four evangelists from the church’s spire. The statues were being sent to southwest France as part of a $6.8 million renovation project, The Associated Press reported.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/notre-da ... efe3b4b72e

But never fear our expert in fighting fire, President Trump, is giving advice on how to put out the blaze.
President Donald Trump on Monday offered unsolicited advice for putting out the massive fire at Paris’s iconic Notre Dame cathedral — and he subsequently got buried in mockery.

Reacting to live video of the fire, Trump advised Parisian fire fighters that “perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out” and he exhorted them to work faster to get the situation under control.

“Must act quickly!” the president wrote.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/backse ... ame-blaze/
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

User avatar
YankeeTarheel
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 7116
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:01 pm
Location: The Jughandle State
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#2 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:47 pm

It is catastrophic. The entire roof and crossing spire are gone. Our idiotic President suggesting flying tankers...but he's a moron.
They don't yet know the cause, but suspect it's connected to the renovations.

This second, a reporter just said that the flames have gotten inside one of the great towers....
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

User avatar
Bisbee
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5960
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: On The Border with no need of The Wall.
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#3 Post by Bisbee » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:52 pm

This is a shock and utterly heartbreaking. I felt this last when the great temples/pagodas in Kathmandu were leveled by an earthquake. It feels we are slowly losing a tremendous part of our human heritage for these structures are totally unaffordable to rebuild in our current world’s skills/economy.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

User avatar
YankeeTarheel
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 7116
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:01 pm
Location: The Jughandle State
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#4 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:59 pm

I remember visiting the cathedral in 1976. It may well be the 2nd most important cathedral in the world, after St Peters. It's the most magnificent of the early Gothic cathedrals, and the late Gothic cathedrals were all built to out-shine this one: Strasbourg, Amiens, Chartres, Reims, Winchester...
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#5 Post by highdesert » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:14 pm

Heartbreaking, whether one is religious or not it's a priceless piece of architecture along with it's furnishings. It's a national treasure like Westminster Abbey is to Britain. It's on an island in the Seine River in the center of Paris. When I heard the spire fell, then I knew the roof was next. If it gets into the towers then the bells could start falling.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47936445
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
Bacchus
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3200
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Corvallis,Oregon (LGC Member)
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#6 Post by Bacchus » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:33 pm

Heartbreaking. It's place in the French psyche, history, and culture is difficult to overstate. It is a genuine tragedy. It's been a favorite haunt of mine the times I've been to Paris.

:cry:
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

Image
ImageImage

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 13978
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#7 Post by sikacz » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:33 am

It’s going to survive as long as they stabilize the structure where the central spire collapsed. The building is structurally a massive masonry vault system. The side buttresses were completely out of the fire area. While it sustained significant damage to the roof it doesn’t necessarily do anything to the structure below. The structural vault damaged was where the spire collapsed. Side note very few modern buildings would have survived a fire of that magnitude.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#8 Post by highdesert » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:20 am

sikacz wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:33 am
It’s going to survive as long as they stabilize the structure where the central spire collapsed. The building is structurally a massive masonry vault system. The side buttresses were completely out of the fire area. While it sustained significant damage to the roof it doesn’t necessarily do anything to the structure below. The structural vault damaged was where the spire collapsed. Side note very few modern buildings would have survived a fire of that magnitude.
As an architect you understand the structure far better than most of us. A $150 million capital campaign was started last year to restore it, due to pollution the stone work is disintegrating. It survived a 15 hour fire, that's one tough building.
Thoughts are now turning to how Notre-Dame will be rebuilt. French President Emmanuel Macron vowed to reconstruct the historic building even as the fire still burned, while a number of companies and business tycoons have so far pledged about €600m ($677m; £519m) between them.

Offers of help with the reconstruction have also poured in from around the globe, with European Council President Donald Tusk calling on EU member states to rally round.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47943705

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47945465
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
eelj
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14896
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#9 Post by eelj » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:01 pm

Hope there isn't a big environmental disaster from this. The amount of lead and zinc that was used in the construction was enormous. Not just the leaded glass.

User avatar
harriss
Grizzled Veteran
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:47 pm
Location: western paradise
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#10 Post by harriss » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:10 pm

I was waiting to see what happened before putting in my $0.02 on this thread. I was an electrician and telecom tech in my past life. At 68 I'm not retired, I'm just plain tired. Many of the older central switching offices on the east coast are masonry construction in Gothic style architecture. They are built like the proverbial brick sh1t house. But even brick sh1t houses have some wood in their construction.

I've never been to Europe. If I did go I would probably want to visit the borderlands of Belarus, Lithuania, and Poland where my ancestors come from. But I'm still interested in architecture.

An excellent show about Gothic cathedrals was on PBS a few years ago.

Is ignorance bliss? NO! It's suffering. Suffering ends when ignorance ends.

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#11 Post by highdesert » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:24 pm

The reason that President Macron was able to jump into the rebuilding campaign for Notre Dame de Paris is that it is owned by the French State, not the Roman Catholic Church. It is the seat (cathedra) of the Catholic Archbishop of Paris but it's a publicly owned building that welcomes 16 million visitors a year, but it isn't insured because of costs. A UK expert said it will take 40 years maybe 20 if rushed, to rebuild it.
"It's going to be a case of assessing the damage, strengthening everything that's there, do a full inventory of what we've lost, and then find the building materials," Dr. Emily Guerry, Senior Lecturer in Medieval European History at Britain's University of Kent, told CBS News. "In the modern world, we don't build like we used to."

Wood
The roof and spire of Notre Dame, which was completely incinerated in Monday's fire, were made of ancient oak. There were 13,000 beams in the church's ceiling, and Guerry said about 3,000 trees would be needed to replace them. "In the Middle Ages ... it was possible to find huge amounts of beautiful strong oak," but overuse of the material led to the destruction of many of Europe's oak forests," Guerry said. "The ability to find around 3,000 more big, strong trees in the next two decades is going to be tricky."

But Guerry said the very tall, old trees needed for the project might exist in the Baltic, where most of Europe's oak comes from today. We need carpenters with the skill set to spot the right trees, treat them properly, and then erect them into this beautiful fan-like fabric," she continued. "These skills aren't really common in the modern age, but I'm sure there are really talented people out there that will be hurrying to do this job for Paris."

Stone
The limestone used to build Notre Dame Cathedral "is considered some of the best in the world," Guerry told CBS News. She said the space above and around the cathedral's vault needs to be rebuilt, and the lateral walls need to be re-strengthened. Originally sourced from Normandy in the 12th century, the Notre Dame stone was all quarried and assembled by hand.

"There will need to be a whole new system of quarrying the same stone (by hand) to create the homogeneous effect," Guerry said. "It requires literally tons and tons and tons of stone. So we're going to need the best stone masons on the planet, and we're going to need the best quarries and access to them immediately."

Glass
On Tuesday, the state of Notre Dame's stained glass windows was still unclear. Some had melted in the flames, but others reportedly remained intact. Restoring the cathedral's windows "is going to be an incredibly difficult and delicate effort," Guerry said, because the heat will have warped whatever glass remains. "We're going to need glaziers to go up and individually remove all of the (individual pieces of glass) and take them down off site, clean them, restructure them, fill in the missing gaps, assess what's been lost, and then reinsert," she said.

"Fortunately," added Guerry, the region is home to "the world's best glaziers, who are trained using 12th century techniques, with the skills to make it beautiful and wonderful."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-dame ... -40-years/

Billionaire donations:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-dame ... otre-dame/

A deputy mayor or Paris and a group of volunteers saved priceless relics which were taken to the Louvre for safekeeping.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-dame ... c-windows/

My fond memory of Notre Dame is the rose windows, hope they can be restored or replaced.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
YankeeTarheel
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 7116
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:01 pm
Location: The Jughandle State
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#12 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:20 pm

I think it's insane to rebuild the roof using old-growth oak timbers. Far better to use a modern design, such as steel or even aluminum truss to do the same job. It's hidden and won't burn like wood. Also better for the environment and will be stronger. Most of the groin vaulting survived, but some of the webbing didn't and that should have authentic materials. The glass is tough, but apparently all 3 great Rose windows survived. Matching colors so the light is the same can be tricky.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#13 Post by highdesert » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:24 am

eelj wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:01 pm
Hope there isn't a big environmental disaster from this. The amount of lead and zinc that was used in the construction was enormous. Not just the leaded glass.
Yes, the roof alone has 210 tons of lead. All the windows have been damaged or destroyed another opportunity to replace the lead.
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:20 pm
I think it's insane to rebuild the roof using old-growth oak timbers. Far better to use a modern design, such as steel or even aluminum truss to do the same job. It's hidden and won't burn like wood. Also better for the environment and will be stronger. Most of the groin vaulting survived, but some of the webbing didn't and that should have authentic materials. The glass is tough, but apparently all 3 great Rose windows survived. Matching colors so the light is the same can be tricky.
The medieval historian was looking at rebuilding with the same materials, I agree modern materials are far better. Since it's a state building this will probably go through multiple government committees looking at materials that will survive another thousand years. Wonder if they'll install a sprinkler system.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
YankeeTarheel
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 7116
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:01 pm
Location: The Jughandle State
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#14 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 am

The lead roof should be replaced with copper--copper roofs historically last just as long and don't have the environmental impact of lead. Even thick copper is far lighter and stronger.
Other similar cathedrals have taken far more aggressive fire prevention steps such as fire walls and sprinkler systems in their attics. Perhaps even Halon or other suppressants could be used.
According to the NYT, in addition to the wood there was 800 years of dust and other detritus the added fuel, so periodic cleaning protocols would be appropriate.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

User avatar
TrueTexan
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:28 pm
Location: LGC MEMBER: The "Crazy" part of Denton Texas
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#15 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:49 am

Now we have the RightWingNuts saying the fire was set by anti-Christian Muslim as an attack on Christians. This was spread even as French fire investigators say it was accident caused by the renovation.
Right-wing conspiracy theorists pushed out Islamaphobic tweets and YouTube videos about the Notre-Dame de Paris fire as flames consumed the iconic cathedral, and faster than the sites could take down the hateful content.

French investigators have ruled out arson and terrorism, saying the fire appeared to be accidental and related to ongoing renovation at the cathedral, but that didn’t stop anonymous and white nationalist accounts from immediately pinning blame on Muslims.

The Washington Post reported that conservative blogger Matt Walsh tweeted that a fire that large could not be accidental, and InfoWars immediately pushed unverified rumors the fire was an “anti-Christian attack” that was “deliberately” set.

Other conservative commentators — including conspiracy theorist Mike Cernovich and debate enthusiast Ben Shapiro — called the apparently accidental fire an attack on Western civilization and “Judeo-Christian heritage,” and white nationalist Richard Spencer called for a race war in response to the blaze.

Phony accounts masquerading as CNN and Fox News also fanned the flames of Islamophobia, and directed some of that hate toward Muslim Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), who had already been targeted for death threats and abuse from President Donald Trump’s Twitter account.

Anonymous accounts used editing software to cook up bogus “evidence” linking Muslims to the Notre Dame fire on Twitter and YouTube, where the posts racked up tens of thousands of views, reported NBC News.

One of those videos, which was posted by an evidently white nationalist account, mixes video from the fire with audio of a man yelling “Allahu Akbar” (“God is great,” in Arabic) from a years-old clip easily found in an online search, but the video still hasn’t been taken down by YouTube.

That video racked up more than 40,000 views on YouTube and grabbed another 2,000 on Twitter before it was pulled from the microblogging service.

Canadian white nationalist Stefan Molyneux urged his Twitter media followers not to trust any official explanation for the fire, and former Fox News broadcaster Glenn Beck pushed similar conspiracy theories on his nationwide radio show.

“If this was started by Islamists, I don’t think you’ll find out about it, because I think it would set the entire country on fire,” Beck said, and then compared the fire to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Sophie Bjork-James, an anthropology professor at Vanderbilt University who focuses on white nationalism, told NBC News said the response to the Notre Dame fire shows how hate groups push false claims about an ongoing race war to gain new recruits.

“They’re committed to getting more white people to white nationalism,” she said, “and fanning the flames of Islamophobia is helpful.”

Mainstream conservatives, as they showed this week, are all too happy to help them.
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/heres- ... otre-dame/

The RWN (RightWingNuts) will grab anything they can to spread the hate. I'm sure they will try to use this like the Reichstag fire was used and 9/11 is being used.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

User avatar
DispositionMatrix
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 10169
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:12 pm
Location: SoNH
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#16 Post by DispositionMatrix » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:30 pm

highdesert wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:24 pm
Billionaire donations:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-dame ... otre-dame/
I could not find similar donations here:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires ... a-ministry
Three historically black churches have burned in less than two weeks in one south Louisiana parish, where officials said they had found “suspicious elements” in each case. The officials have not ruled out the possibility of arson, or the possibility that the fires are related.

“There is clearly something happening in this community,” State Fire Marshal H. Browning said in a statement on Thursday.

The host of this campaign is the Seventh District Baptist Association, a 149 year old non-profit religious organization. We are working with the Governor of Louisiana, local leaders, elected officials, the impacted churches and their pastors, other faith organizations and the community to ensure 100% of all funds raised will be evenly distributed to the three churches affected.

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#17 Post by highdesert » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:47 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:30 pm
highdesert wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:24 pm
Billionaire donations:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-dame ... otre-dame/
I could not find similar donations here:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/church-fires ... a-ministry
Three historically black churches have burned in less than two weeks in one south Louisiana parish, where officials said they had found “suspicious elements” in each case. The officials have not ruled out the possibility of arson, or the possibility that the fires are related.

“There is clearly something happening in this community,” State Fire Marshal H. Browning said in a statement on Thursday.

The host of this campaign is the Seventh District Baptist Association, a 149 year old non-profit religious organization. We are working with the Governor of Louisiana, local leaders, elected officials, the impacted churches and their pastors, other faith organizations and the community to ensure 100% of all funds raised will be evenly distributed to the three churches affected.
The difference between an 800 year old national treasure that is a public building and local privately owned but equally needy churches. Agreed, life isn't fair.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
TrueTexan
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:28 pm
Location: LGC MEMBER: The "Crazy" part of Denton Texas
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#18 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:01 pm

Trump and Pence spoke about the Notre Dame fire but they still haven't even mentioned the three churches in Louisiana that burned. You know damn good and well, they been all over it had it White Evangelical Church. They would be offering the FBI to help investigate and trying to blame those leftist radicals.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 13978
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#19 Post by sikacz » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:15 pm

It depends on what the architectural and historic priorities are. There is nothing insane about using original materials and techniques. I think in the end it will be determined that the fire was due to negligence during a renovation. In other words the original material would have performed well. Also, steel structure has a different load impact and requires fireproofing as well. Wood retains it’s strength differently and requires a significant portion to be burned before becoming structurally weak. It’s not necessarily a smart choice to go to modern materials.
https://www.westernwoodstructures.com/i ... tructures/
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#20 Post by highdesert » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:07 pm

The Paris Prosecutor opened an investigation the day the fire started and has a staff of around 60 investigating. The cause is very likely accidental caused by the contractors doing the renovation. Already $700 million has been pledged and the government announced that donations will be tax deductible, so many more are expected. If they use original materials, install sprinklers.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

User avatar
featureless
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3344
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 6:11 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#21 Post by featureless » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:12 pm

highdesert wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:07 pm
The cause is very likely accidental caused by the contractors doing the renovation.
Can you imagine how that poor bastard that dropped his cigarette must feel?

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 13978
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#22 Post by sikacz » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:18 pm

highdesert wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:07 pm
The Paris Prosecutor opened an investigation the day the fire started and has a staff of around 60 investigating. The cause is very likely accidental caused by the contractors doing the renovation. Already $700 million has been pledged and the government announced that donations will be tax deductible, so many more are expected. If they use original materials, install sprinklers.
Good construction practices would most likely have avoided this incident.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

dougb
Loquacious
Posts: 2829
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:25 pm
Location: Southern Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#23 Post by dougb » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 pm

The three American churches were arson. A misguided youth is in jail. Money has been raised to rebuild. The French think they can have Notre Dame rebuilt in 5 years. If they can find materials to rebuild. Apparently huge oaks are rare, not to mention wood workers with the required skills. But when you have really old buildings to maintain, craftsmen seem to show up who can do the work.

The fire looked really hot. I suppose wood that has air dried for 800 years burns hot.

An American reporter was interviewing a French man who was receiving the saved treasures from inside the cathedral. She asked how much they were worth. The French man let her live.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Pomme
Been around awhile
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#24 Post by Pomme » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 am
The lead roof should be replaced with copper--copper roofs historically last just as long and don't have the environmental impact of lead. Even thick copper is far lighter and stronger.
Other similar cathedrals have taken far more aggressive fire prevention steps such as fire walls and sprinkler systems in their attics. Perhaps even Halon or other suppressants could be used.
According to the NYT, in addition to the wood there was 800 years of dust and other detritus the added fuel, so periodic cleaning protocols would be appropriate.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... e=Homepage
The roofs of Paris are made of zinc and slate. In France zinc is a widely used material for roof-to-wall flashings, caps, etc unlike galvanized in the US or copper for those who have money. In my 30 years + of construction in the US I have never seen zing. When I was an apprentice in France we used to recycle the zinc for wine money. We opened our first bottle of wine at 9am along with baguette and pate.

User avatar
highdesert
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 12039
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:54 pm
Location: Biggest state on the Left Coast
Contact:

Re: Large Fire Breaks Out At Notre Dame Cathedral In Paris

#25 Post by highdesert » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:28 pm

dougb wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 pm
The fire looked really hot. I suppose wood that has air dried for 800 years burns hot.

An American reporter was interviewing a French man who was receiving the saved treasures from inside the cathedral. She asked how much they were worth. The French man let her live.
:lol: Stupid Americans !
A human chain of rescue workers, led by the chaplain of the Paris Fire Brigade, retrieved priceless religious artifacts from Notre Dame Cathedral as it burned, French officials confirmed Tuesday.

Culture Minister Franck Riester said that the cathedral's treasury of irreplaceable Christian relics — the most precious being the Crown of Thorns believed to have been worn by Jesus Christ, and the tunic of Saint Louis — was safe in the Paris city hall in a radio interview Tuesday morning. The rescue effort was led by Catholic priest and chaplain of the Paris Fire Brigade, Jean-Marc Fournier, who went into the burning cathedral to retrieve the holy items, Philippe Goujon, the mayor of Paris’s 15th district, told reporters.
"Father Fournier, chaplain of the Paris Fire Brigade, went with the firefighters into Notre Dame Cathedral to save the Crown of Thorns and the Blessed Sacrament," Loraillère said. "Father Fournier is an absolute hero," a member of the emergency services told Sky News. "He showed no fear at all as he made straight for the relics inside the cathedral, and made sure they were saved. He deals with life and death every day, and shows no fear." According to a 2016 profile, Father Fornier served as a military chaplain in Afghanistan before joining the fire brigade. He was praised for his work alongside the firefighters in the immediate aftermath of the horrific Bataclan terrorist attacks in 2015, when he first helped evacuate victims and then prayed over the bodies of the dead and with victims who had lost loved ones. "I gave collective absolution, as the Catholic Church authorizes me," Fournier said in the profile.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/el ... notre-dame

Pomme wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm
When I was an apprentice in France we used to recycle the zinc for wine money. We opened our first bottle of wine at 9am along with baguette and pate.
Vin at 9 am, I'd be useless for the whole day. Biere at noon would be better. :)
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: featureless, Google [Bot], mattgunguy and 7 guests