Epstein successful, apparently

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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DMac
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#51 Post by DMac » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:42 pm

People were saying how it's more of a conspiracy because of the two guards falling asleep and how one of them was brand new.

Having worked for the government, this is actually not surprising at all and is par for the course

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#52 Post by featureless » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:00 pm

DMac wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:42 pm
People were saying how it's more of a conspiracy because of the two guards falling asleep and how one of them was brand new.

Having worked for the government, this is actually not surprising at all and is par for the course
Sure. The thing (ok, things) that bothers me: Highest profile inmate ever, no video surveillance, already one "suicide" attempt, taken off suicide watch, irregularities with guard check in, found dead in cell/hung with broken bones (plural, not just one). So we believe in the perfect storm? Or are we just that fucking incompetent? Or, does the tin foil hat theory that he was killed to protect the upper crust actually make sense? I don't know, obviously. Either way, it's pretty fucked up.

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#53 Post by DMac » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:04 pm

Nah, I hear you. I'm not even ruling out foul play from the higher ups. Just that the way people think government workers behave around high profile subjects isn't exactly how it happens in real life. You become complacent after years of dealing with other high profile stuff.

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#54 Post by TrueTexan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm

NY ME declares Epstein died suicide by hanging.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jeffrey ... 875f23aa0a

:sarcasm: Never mind that his head was twisted 180 degrees and he had a knife in his back. :sarcasm:
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#55 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:38 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm
NY ME declares Epstein died suicide by hanging.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jeffrey ... 875f23aa0a

:sarcasm: Never mind that his head was twisted 180 degrees and he had a knife in his back. :sarcasm:
"He died of natural causes when the 3 guys who snuck into his bedroom stuck knives in his heart" --from Jimmy Breslin's "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight"
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#56 Post by featureless » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:40 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm
NY ME declares Epstein died suicide by hanging.
Well, we've put that baby to bed, broken neck bones and all. Maybe Barr will hire Mueller to do the investigation... Wouldn't that be something to watch?

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#57 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:43 pm

featureless wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:40 pm
TrueTexan wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm
NY ME declares Epstein died suicide by hanging.
Well, we've put that baby to bed, broken neck bones and all. Maybe Barr will hire Mueller to do the investigation... Wouldn't that be something to watch?
I don't think whether Epstein committed suicide is at issue. Why he was able to IS the issue.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#58 Post by highdesert » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:44 pm

MEs have been wrong in the past. The feds could always bring in their own pathologists to review it while they still have possession of the body. It won't quiet the rumor mill, that has a life of it's own.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#59 Post by featureless » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:14 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:43 pm
I don't think whether Epstein committed suicide is at issue. Why he was able to IS the issue.
I'm not convinced he committed suicide by a long shot, but I'd rather stop discussing it so I don't become viewed as a nutter! :lol:

It's entirely possible he did but how it was allowed to happen is the issue, as you say. I hope he was deposed for many. many hours so there's a record of what he knew. I would like to see justice to more than just him. We shouldn't allow the powerful to get away with raping kids. But I imagine his will be the only head to roll.

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#60 Post by K9s » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:09 pm

Mismanagement and the draining of the Bureau of Prisons people & funding is the bigger story here.

Same story for every other government department except CBP and ICE.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#61 Post by FrontSight » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:23 pm

I was telling people at work that this will end up with all the blame falling on some low level prison guards. They'll put everything on them, make an example of them and vilify them in the press as a diversion from the rest of everything else. Like his lawyers asking to have him removed from suicide watch, and then just happens to find himself with guards who sleep on duty?

I'm really not much for conspiracies, and this really could be coincidence. But I sure hope this means the FULL investigation continues. Trump and Barr seem fired up for precisely all the wrong reasons, but I'll take it if it means a full investigation.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#62 Post by VodoundaVinci » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:36 pm

Show of hands here...who has ever been in prison as an inmate or otherwise? Very curious reading some of the perspectives.

Who here has actually witnessed procedures, surveillance, lock up, and the daily goings on from inside a jail/prison?

VooDoo

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#63 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:02 pm

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:36 pm
Show of hands here...who has ever been in prison as an inmate or otherwise? Very curious reading some of the perspectives.

Who here has actually witnessed procedures, surveillance, lock up, and the daily goings on from inside a jail/prison?

VooDoo
Does being inside as a researcher count? In grad school we were doing a study on recidivism and using data from NC Central in Raleigh, so I did go in once. But I had no contact with inmates or trustees.
And then MSNBC used to run "Lock Up" starting at 10pm on Fridays and would run all weekend....of course I only watched a few times and would shut it off. Now they are running news up till midnight, then reruns from earlier in the day.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#64 Post by featureless » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:46 pm

I've seen some in the movies. ;)
(Claim no expertise, just opinionated conjecture)

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#65 Post by VodoundaVinci » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:09 pm

Having worked in several (many) jails, prisons, and high security facilities at local, county state, and federal levels and having been inside cell blocks servicing and supporting inmate surveillance I cannot be convinced that the system allowed this thru incompetence.

No matter what, there is no way for there not to be video surveillance of Epsteins death. If cameras and devices had been offline there would have been chaos in terms of alarms. 24/7. It's not possible to have lost or not recorded his death in any facility I have been in.

He was allowed to commit suicide or murdered. Others can believe it was incompetence, sleeping guards, or bad luck but this is not possible. I can't believe The Media and The Experts can spin this into an oops.

VooDoo

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#66 Post by K9s » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:22 pm

If the media starts to question the "oops", they will fall into the conspiracy theory trap. The far-right is better at spinning fake news and conspiracies for their base (and profiting from it with YouTube and merchandise), so it helps no one but the far-right to suggest a conspiracy without evidence.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#67 Post by Marlene » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:56 pm

I’ve been in a few.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#68 Post by VodoundaVinci » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:27 am

The lack of video is proof of conspiracy. There is no perfect storm of screw ups nor incompetence that could lead to a complete loss of video surveillance. To believe otherwise is ignorance of how surveillance systems are designed and integrated in these facilities. There are standards to prevent this exact scenario and i maintain them.

This was conspiracy. I'll bow out of this conversation now and take my alt right conjecture with me.

VooDoo

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#69 Post by Marlene » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:32 am

I agree VooDoo.
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#70 Post by eelj » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:39 am

I think Allen Dulles the man who weaponized the term "conspiracy theorist" would have a tough time spinning this one off.

Too many of the wealthy elite and world leaders involved. Since the FBI raided his little fantasy island get away I don't expect much to get out about what appears to have been a blackmail operation.

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#71 Post by K9s » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:19 pm

Yeah, wealthy pedophiles and a jail suicide make all these coincidences seem like a conspiracy. I doubt we will ever find out the whole truth.

The FBI waited until his computers and storage were whisked off away before they raided his private island. Coincidence?
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#72 Post by highdesert » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Barr, playing more defense. His head could very well be the next one to fall. The House committees should quickly call Barr and officials in BOP to testify.
Attorney General William Barr removed the acting head of the Bureau of Prisons, the Justice Department said Monday, replacing the agency's top official in the wake of the suicide of Jeffrey Epstein earlier this month. In a statement, Barr said Hugh Hurwitz, who had served in the acting position since last year, would return to the assistant director position he formerly occupied.

Dr. Kathleen Hawk Sawyer, who led the bureau from 1992 to 2003, will be the new director, Barr said. Barr has said he was "appalled" and "angry" to learn of the suicide, and cited "serious irregularities" at the Manhattan facility where Epstein had been detained. Barr had already shaken up the top leadership at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York, announcing last week that the facility's warden would be reassigned while the FBI and Justice Department's inspector general investigated the conditions leading up to the suicide. A picture of dysfunction in the unit where Epstein was held emerged in the days after he was found dead in his cell.

At least one of the two employees on duty in Epstein's unit at the time was not part of the regular detention workforce but was filling in as a guard, and Epstein had not been checked on for hours before his apparent hanging, according to a person briefed on the matter. Guards are supposed to check on an inmate in the facility's special housing unit, where Epstein was, every 30 minutes. Union officials have said resources at prisons had been stretched thin by budget cuts and a hiring freeze that was first put in place at the beginning of the Trump administration.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/19/politics ... index.html
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#73 Post by TrueTexan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:47 pm

K9s wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:19 pm
Yeah, wealthy pedophiles and a jail suicide make all these coincidences seem like a conspiracy. I doubt we will ever find out the whole truth.

The FBI waited until his computers and storage were whisked off away before they raided his private island. Coincidence?
That could not be a coincidence. The CIA just got there first. :whistle:
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#74 Post by K9s » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:22 pm

Or the British. :lol:
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Re: Epstein successful, apparently

#75 Post by highdesert » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:14 am

Jeffrey Epstein signed a will just two days before he killed himself in jail, court records show, opening a new legal front in what could be a long battle over the financier’s fortune. Court papers filed last week in the U.S. Virgin Islands list no details of beneficiaries but valued the estate at more than $577 million, including more than $56 million in cash. The existence of the will, first reported by the New York Post, raised new questions about Epstein’s final days inside the Metropolitan Correctional Center, where he was awaiting trial on federal sex trafficking and conspiracy charges.

Epstein signed the document Aug. 8. Less than 48 hours later, he was found dead in his cell, prompting an investigation that has cast a harsh light on staffing shortages at the Manhattan detention center. Prosecutors on Monday moved to dismiss the indictment against Epstein but have said they are considering charging others with facilitating his alleged abuse of dozens of girls. The filing of the will, meanwhile, had been closely followed by lawyers representing women who claim they were sexually abused by Epstein when they were teenagers and recruited into his residences to provide him massages.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... ll-details
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