6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

1
Amid mounting national concern about gun violence in America, authorities in Louisiana say they were called to the scene of a 12-year-old’s birthday party on Saturday where six people were shot following an argument.

Authorities were called to a neighborhood in LaPlace, located just west of New Orleans, around 8:30 p.m. Saturday after a report of gunfire, the St. John the Baptist Parish Sheriff’s Office said in a statement.

No arrests had been made as of late Sunday morning. Additional details on the victims, including their ages and conditions, were not available, the sheriff’s office said.

The gunfire comes amid a particularly violent year for shootings across the country, with CNN tallying at least 45 mass shootings ― incidents where four or more people, excluding the gunman, are wounded or killed by gunfire ― since March 16. That’s when eight people were killed by a gunman at three Atlanta-area spas.

This rise in violence comes after 2020, which saw the start of the pandemic and the smallest number of mass killings in more than a decade, according to a database compiled by The Associated Press, USA Today and Northeastern University.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laplace- ... 55502603bf

Just putting more pressure on the government to have gun control.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

2
Rather than lament the onslaught, I want to show it's cheaper, benefits more folks, and infringes on no gun rights to pursue universal health care, including mental health care. We can keep our guns if we pursue a universal health care strategy. The premise is that only insane people do mass shootings. Identify them early and treat them. And everyone gets that same health care.

Tough to oppose.

CDFingers
Image
Image
.
Sometimes when the cuckoo's cryin;, when the moon is half way down,
sometimes when the night is dyin' I take me out and I wonder around--I wonder 'round.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

3
CDFingers wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:32 pm Rather than lament the onslaught, I want to show it's cheaper, benefits more folks, and infringes on no gun rights to pursue universal health care, including mental health care. We can keep our guns if we pursue a universal health care strategy. The premise is that only insane people do mass shootings. Identify them early and treat them. And everyone gets that same health care.

Tough to oppose.

CDFingers
The country can't even get decent health care for all for things like cancer and heart disease. PLUS, a decent connection to a UBC for mental health care instances wouldn't hurt. NOT saying a ban but a 'red flag' to take a closer look at somebody who's trying to buy a gun. BUT, no $, no political will, no program. Too many bribes to 'legislators' on both sides of the isle from Big Pharma, Big Hospital...

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

4
F4FEver wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:49 am
CDFingers wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:32 pm Rather than lament the onslaught, I want to show it's cheaper, benefits more folks, and infringes on no gun rights to pursue universal health care, including mental health care. We can keep our guns if we pursue a universal health care strategy. The premise is that only insane people do mass shootings. Identify them early and treat them. And everyone gets that same health care.

Tough to oppose.

CDFingers
The country can't even get decent health care for all for things like cancer and heart disease. PLUS, a decent connection to a UBC for mental health care instances wouldn't hurt. NOT saying a ban but a 'red flag' to take a closer look at somebody who's trying to buy a gun. BUT, no $, no political will, no program. Too many bribes to 'legislators' on both sides of the isle from Big Pharma, Big Hospital...
Red flag laws are ineffective without universal healthcare that includes mental health. First healthcare, then figure out how to reach the people that need help. Otherwise it’s a wasted effort.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

5
While I don't disagree with the call for more and better mental health care, only some of these shootings are the result of a mentally ill person. Plenty of them--and I see the shotspotter reports from the police here on a daily basis--are situations where an argument escalated from "Oh yeah?" to BANG.

Tangential to that, when I was waiting in line to get my concealed carry permit, I was talking with a Pbgh cop, who said so many people were getting their license it was hard to believe there was anyone left in Allegheny County that didn’t have one. Some days, he said, the line went all the way around the end of the block... and the wait was less than 30 mins once you got inside. Given how dumb, stressed, and/or nervous we all are, I’m more worried about my fellow citizens than potential bad guys.

Standoff - The Office: https://youtu.be/cb5DITStXlI
LGC #58559867
אבראהאדאברא
θέλημα Αγάπη

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

6
For every instance of violence there is a specific root cause. It is naïve to think the solution is bans, restrictions and new laws without actually trying to address the underlying reasons for violence. There will always be instances that will not be stopped, but it would be better to address the larger systemic problems that we can define and should be able to address to at least reduce incidence. I'm pretty tired of the constant howl for ineffective new laws and restriction. Rant off.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

7
sikacz wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:26 am For every instance of violence there is a specific root cause. It is naïve to think the solution is bans, restrictions and new laws without actually trying to address the underlying reasons for violence. There will always be instances that will not be stopped, but it would be better to address the larger systemic problems that we can define and should be able to address to at least reduce incidence. I'm pretty tired of the constant howl for ineffective new laws and restriction. Rant off.
And yet, cars have more and more mandated safety features while the driving tests get weaker. Next you'll be suggesting we all wear body armour ...

Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just nuts.

Rant off.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

8
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am
Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just nuts.

Rant off.
Many of us live in states with considerable limits on firearms. They prove to be ineffective, at best.

From my perspective, being one of those individuals subject to regulations so extensive that one must constantly stay abreast so as not to be defined a felon by new laws, they just aren't working. To continue to push more gun restrictions as a workable solution is to ignore the real problems. At the expense of a civil right. This past few months has been horrific with regard to gun violence. But I'll argue that no amount of laws will keep desperate people from doing desperate things. Wouldn't it make more sense to address that desperation? To do the same thing over and over and expect different results is the definition of ___. Let's try something different. Something we know works. Like intervention programs. Like living wages. Like equal access. Like ending the black market for illicit drugs. Like ending the prison industrial complex in favor of rehabilitation. Like equal educational opportunities. Like healthcare for all.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

9
featureless wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:55 am
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am
Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just nuts.

Rant off.
Many of us live in states with considerable limits on firearms. They prove to be ineffective, at best.

From my perspective, being one of those individuals subject to regulations so extensive that one must constantly stay abreast so as not to be defined a felon by new laws, they just aren't working. To continue to push more gun restrictions as a workable solution is to ignore the real problems. At the expense of a civil right. This past few months has been horrific with regard to gun violence. But I'll argue that no amount of laws will keep desperate people from doing desperate things. Wouldn't it make more sense to address that desperation? To do the same thing over and over and expect different results is the definition of ___. Let's try something different. Something we know works. Like intervention programs. Like living wages. Like equal access. Like ending the black market for illicit drugs. Like ending the prison industrial complex in favor of rehabilitation. Like equal educational opportunities. Like healthcare for all.
Thank you for being the voice of reality. I’d hoped some of our comrades here would finally get on board. Instead they choose to call us nuts.

The position stated by featureless is in essence the clubs position.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

11
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just .....
yes, we likely disagree, but your exalted status as forum naval architect* buys you a tiny little smidgeon of cred. i'd like some specifics. what limits exactly are you advocating?

* you never know, LGC may need a navy someday. can we have guns over 14" bore?
never submit! (click "submit" button now.)

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

12
lurker wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:21 pm
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just .....
yes, we likely disagree, but your exalted status as forum naval architect* buys you a tiny little smidgeon of cred. i'd like some specifics. what limits exactly are you advocating?

* you never know, LGC may need a navy someday. can we have guns over 14" bore?
And we can disagree. Perspectives are important. Sail, I too would like to know what limits you believe are appropriate and why. What do you believe they will accomplish?

To give you an analogy: You have a wooden sail boat (sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable on boats, so lay terms it is!). You note that the damn thing takes on water every time you put it in the water. Investigation leads to identification of a hole in your hull. Obviously, not a working strategy. So, you have some options. The first is the almighty duct tape. Second, you can put some putty in the hole and paint over it. Third, you can tow it to the shop, cut out the rotting wood, providing clear margins to sound wood, replace what is needed, sand, paint, sand, paint, epoxy coat and call it new. One of those solutions is an actual fix. The other two are Band-Aids that may appear to work, but you know full well you'll have wet feet again soon enough.

We know that "common sense" gun control measures are Band-Aids. We know this because states like California and New York have applied copious amounts of duct tape and bondo to "gun violence" but have not stopped either the flash-bang mass shootings or the run of the mill daily gun homicides in major metro areas (that, oddly enough, account for the vast majority of gun deaths and occur in areas where the measures noted in my post above are sorely lacking). "We" believe these common sense measures work, right? But where's the evidence? We target "assault weapons" every time, while knowing full well the vast majority of gun homicides are from handguns. We target magazine size limits, knowing full well that many shooters use multiple guns rather than standard capacity magazine (not even touching the arbitrary 10 deaths is fine, 11 is too many approach to this particular route). We pile on more background checks and waiting periods knowing that most guns used in homicides are illegally acquired and will continue to be so, bypassing the new laws, just like the existing laws. How do we ever expect these "tried and true" approaches to work?

I say all this because I am hugely saddened by violence in our society. I want it addressed. But I want the boat to be repaired, not just duct taped.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

13
lurker wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:21 pm
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am Sorry - I know we disagree here, but to keep preaching mitigation without some limits on firearms is just .....
yes, we likely disagree, but your exalted status as forum naval architect* buys you a tiny little smidgeon of cred. i'd like some specifics. what limits exactly are you advocating?

* you never know, LGC may need a navy someday. can we have guns over 14" bore?
I have to admit I don't know - but sitting down and discussing shit would be a good start. EVERY single fcuking time we have one of these we hear "thoughts and prayers" and "root cause mitigation" and nothing fcuking else.

I'm tired of it.

10 round magazines as a maximum? Calibre limits are stupid (no-one can afford a mass shooting with 50-cal)as are limits on SBRs and such.

The fact that no-one is willing to discuss anything is what really pisses me off. Until then, I think you're all nuts.

Oh - 12" maximum. Modern warships are softer targets than they used to be.... :)


EDIT TO ADD: Let us face the real truth - if there were no guns, there would be no shootings. Countries that have banned - and confiscated - some types have seen shootings reduce dramatically. You may argue the second, but the first IS an indisputable truth.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

14
I'm willing to discuss any solution or idea that is fact based and shown to address the issue rather than appease those that advocate fear and emotion based proposals like gun restrictions and bans. They have not been shown to work and trying them over and over again isn't going do anything. I'm just as tired of hearing people, especially people here, dismissing the very positions we have advocated for years without actually helping push for them. Instead dismissing root cause mitigation perhaps SD you should demand that it be given the same effort that California and New York have put into the ideas you seem to support.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

16
Sika, until you can find a way to fund a pervasive (word used with extreme care) mental-health screening system that is compulsory not only for those buying guns, but also for those who already own them and ALL people in their houses, you are simply whistling Dixie and hoping it will all go away.

Good luck with that. You have offered no workable solutions at all.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
Image
Image
Image

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

17
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:30 pm
The fact that no-one is willing to discuss anything is what really pisses me off. Until then, I think you're all nuts.
I dunno. I threw out a bunch of ideas in post 8 above. I'm eager to discuss, but the proffered gun control is no different than the thoughts and prayers. I am absolutely on the same page that this shit must end. But it isn't an easy fix nor a quick one. We're an impatient people who think another law will fix it. It won't. What else you got?

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

18
If you put capital before ideas there will never be a solution. Look at it this way, when the USA decided to go to the moon I doubt there was a firm price tag fixed to the project. First you decide what it is you want to do, then we figure out how we get the resources to do it. Sounds simple, it is.

As a side note, those countries did not eliminate violence. Just changed to a different means. That’s not a solution. That’s playing whack-a-mole.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

19
SailDesign wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:13 pm Sika, until you can find a way to fund a pervasive (word used with extreme care) mental-health screening system that is compulsory not only for those buying guns, but also for those who already own them and ALL people in their houses, you are simply whistling Dixie and hoping it will all go away.

Good luck with that. You have offered no workable solutions at all.
Would the same mental health screening be applicable to voters? Millions voted for a mad man. That mad man then killed hundreds of thousands of americans through negligence (at best). Then even more millions voted for him again. His body count is much higher than gun homicides so I'd argue voting rights are just as dangerous as gun rights. But they are rights? Right?

So there's the rub. You can't justify arbitrary restrictions on civil rights. So how do we improve society so we have fewer desperate voters and fewer desperate gun "owners"? That is where the fucus must be. Improve, not control.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

20
The fact that many people forget or ignore is that there’s 1.2 guns per man, woman, and child in USA. We can completely ban the sale of all new guns tomorrow and we’d still have enough to kill everybody. A little restriction on mag capacity and scary features is not going to make any difference. You can kill 8 people just as quickly with a grandfatherly M1 Garand.

For America gun bans are not the solution, because just about everybody has guns already. It works in countries where guns are rare, so restricting them has a considerable effect on availability. Banning guns in USA is like telling a guy with stage 4 lung cancer to stop smoking. At that point it makes no difference, he needs a different solution like chemo or radiation therapy.

Most conservatives blame immigrants and minorities for diluting “American family values”, thus creating rampant crime and mass shootings. Most progressives blame guns. They are both mostly wrong.

This is the real problem, IMHO:
6A4FD533-20C5-4766-9685-B73C6DFF303A.png
There is a positive correlation between crime and poverty.

Here’s another chart to think about:
CC43CAF8-8FBA-46E7-82E2-B85BCDE2705A.png
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: 6 Shot At Child’s Birthday Party As Nation Faces Onslaught Of Gun Violence

23
A universal healthcare system in many countries seems to work just fine. It’s not a solution to every instance of violence, but it’s a better start than starting to restrict civil rights for negligible to non existent gains. The right to self defense is just as basic as the right to free speech. As noted, 73.6 million voters voted for a fascist for president. The policies this one man advocated killed more people than any mass shooting or gun violence probably in decades. Do we want to start reviewing who should vote or would we prefer to address the underlying reasons people are desperate enough to vote for a fascist or remove their right to vote. I’d prefer finding a fix to our “underlying root” issues.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron