Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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This was at a CNN "town hall" on 7/21.

Actually, crime is down. Gun violence and murder rates are up.

Guns. I'm the only guy that ever got passed legislation, when I was a senator, to make sure we eliminated assault weapons. The idea you need a weapon that can have the ability to fire 20,30,40,50, 120 shots from that weapon, whether it's a 9mm pistol or whether it's a rifle is ridiculous. I'm continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things, but I'm not likely to get that done in the near term.

So here's what I've done. The people who in fact are using those weapons are acquiring them illegally. Illegally. And so what happens is I've gotten ATF--Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms. I had them increase their budget and increase their capacity along with the Justice Department to go after the gun shops that are not abiding by the law of doing background checks. For real. That's number one.

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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Two things. First, going after "illegal" transfers won't get much opposition. Second, I think he's referring to magazines as a person who doesn't have much of an idea about how semi autos work. He's heard "9mm" in context of how common that caliber is in gun crimes. I think the SCOTUS will go all Heller on his ass with respect to the pistol, but might let states regulate magazine size. I think it is small potatoes in the final analysis.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
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Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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PolitiFact:
House Republicans said Biden wants to ban handguns. That is incorrect.

Biden was talking about banning assault weapons and magazines that carry 20 to 120 rounds of ammunition. Those policies would not affect the most popular handgun models. Even if some smaller set of pistols came under such a ban, that would not translate to a ban on handguns across the board.

We rate this claim False.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... -handguns/

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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Democrats have to pay back anti-gun groups for their support, but pushing gun control jeopardizes House seats in purple districts, Pelosi already has a slim majority. Biden's a pragmatist he knows what he can do legislatively.

Next year Republicans are defending 20 senate seats and Democrats 14. CNN is watching 10 seats, 5 Republican and 5 Democratic that could flip.

PA - Open currently held by Republican Toomey
GA - Democrat Warnock
WI - Republican Johnson
NC - Open currently held by Republican Burr
AZ - Democrat Kelly
NV - Democrat Cortez-Masto
NH - Democrat Hassan
OH - Open currently held by Republican Portman
FL - Republican Rubio
CO - Democrat Bennett

A lot can happen in a year.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/03/politics ... index.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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Here is the transcript from the Whitehouse's site--
MR. LEMON: Mr. President, I want to talk about something else that affects people a lot, and to children as well. The next question — and it’s about gun violence. This is from a paralegal and she’s an advocate. Her name is Andrea Solis Canto. She’s a Democrat.

Andrea, go ahead.

THE PRESIDENT: I used to be a public defender, kid. Thanks for what you’re doing.

Q (Laughs.) Thank you. So, gun violence has been on the rise across the country, and as a recent student and young professional living in Over-the-Rhine, I’ve seen this firsthand. Gun violence has taken the lives of so many young students and young people. I’m tired, and I want to see change that’s going to make our cities, like Cincinnati, safer.

So, how will you address gun violence, from a federal point of view, to actually bring about change and make our local cities safer?

THE PRESIDENT: Now, I’m not being a wise guy. There’s no reason you should — have you seen my gun violence legislation I’ve introduced? As you know — because you’re so involved — actually, crime is down; gun violence and murder rates are up. Guns. I’m the only guy that ever got passed legislation, when I was a senator, that made sure we eliminated assault weapons. The idea you need a weapon that can have the ability to fire 20, 30, 40, 50, 120 shots from that weapon — whether it’s a — whether it’s a 9-millimeter pistol or whether it’s a rifle — is ridiculous.

I’m continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things, but I’m not likely to get that done in the near term. So here’s what I’ve done: The people who, in fact, are using those weapons are acquiring them illegally — illegally. And so what happens is, I’ve gotten ATF — Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms — I have them increase their budget and increase their capacity, along with the Justice Department, to go after the gun shops that are not abiding by the law of doing background checks. (Applause.) For real. That’s number one.

Number two — number two, we’re in a position where you — most of the cities — and I don’t know enough — I think you’ve had a lot of gun violence here in Cincinnati. I think it was up to — what? — how many — how many how dead? Five hundred over a period. Don’t hold me to the number — whatever it was. But my point is, all across the country. And it’s not because the gun shops in the cities are selling these guns. They are either shadow gun dealers and/or gun shops that are not abiding by the law.

So, we’re going to do major investigations and shut those guys down and put some of them in jail and — for what they’re doing: selling these weapons. There’s also a thing called “ghost guns” that are being sold now and being used.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... don-lemon/

What I am hearing from Biden's support structure in the media and in this thread is "Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia."

Having heard the audio and read the transcript, I can see that although he was in his typical state of confusion, Biden said what he said as transcribed above. I expect the Joe Biden Defense League to try to bail him out, but it is not intellectually honest to use his senility to rescue the president from his own policy statements. The media Democrats and Biden supporters might not want him to have said what he said publicly, but they cannot wish it away with falsified reports and wishful thinking. Better yet, someone should tell him to STFU about guns.

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Asking Dems to STFU about guns is like asking the GOP to politely FO about abortion. Probably more than a few of us started out on that side but weren't willing to indulge the evangelical wing. Turns out that with party politics, you only need 26% to really buy into complete asshattery as long as another 25% will indulge it.

Anyhoo - what handguns rate 20 and up? I've got nothing in standard capacity magazines outside of 5.7x28 and a few Kel-Tecs. I mean, I don't have them, but you know. 5.7 isn't what we'd call a popular cartridge, easy to gang up on.

That leaves rifles. Not really my area of interest - seriously, I've tried, I just don't get it. And I'm better with one than handguns! - but obviously certain calibers are more evil than others. 5.56mm? Devil spawn. .45-70? Not so much. Okay, now I'm trying to envision a levergun with a banana clip. Point being. This is all performative politics with respect to mass shootings. If spree killers liked .45-70 instead of 5.56, we'd be having a conversation about the evils of levers.

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21 rounders are so dangerous. 19 rounds though... that's totally safe.

This is a propaganda tactic to chip away at inalienable rights.

They're sniffing around for an angle on their gun control and seeing what works. They should be putting this energy into giving us all real health care. But that would mean that the big money would stop flowing to their campaigns from two horrible lobbies: gun control and health care.

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NegativeApproach wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:06 am 21 rounders are so dangerous. 19 rounds though... that's totally safe.

This is a propaganda tactic to chip away at inalienable rights.

They're sniffing around for an angle on their gun control and seeing what works. They should be putting this energy into giving us all real health care. But that would mean that the big money would stop flowing to their campaigns from two horrible lobbies: gun control and health care.
Bingo!
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:12 pm He’s a fool on this issue.
"I think universal background checks and 21 Yo minimum age are probably good ideas"

"Let's take their guns and worry about due process later"

Who said the above?(paraphrased)
I guess he's already preparing to be a one term president, so it just speaks to the Anti base, but it's virtue signalling in a really idiotic way. It's going to cost votes for the Democratic party.
Disagree..who said, 'it's the economy stupid'? Altho lots of fervor here about any 'gun issue', for main street, it's all about jobs, money, heath care..etc..Gun issues for the vast unaffiliated middle of the voting public, who live mainly in suburbia, is pretty far down the 'list'. People there read about 'gun violence' but in their daily lives, they worry about their mortgage, their car payment, their health care..

IMHO

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Universal background checks are only a good idea if the system is open to all and free. Otherwise it’s a way to prevent the poor and disadvantaged from access to guns. So under the current system no thanks. How about a universal background check to vote? Would that be a good idea as well. Perhaps a $15 fee every time you go vote. Would you consider that ok? Perhaps address the underlying causes of violence. Also 21 is an arbitrary age, people vote at 18 and can serve their country. Perhaps voting should be raised to 40, also just as arbitrary.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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F4FEver wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:20 am
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:12 pm He’s a fool on this issue.
"I think universal background checks and 21 Yo minimum age are probably good ideas"

"Let's take their guns and worry about due process later"

Who said the above?(paraphrased)
I guess he's already preparing to be a one term president, so it just speaks to the Anti base, but it's virtue signalling in a really idiotic way. It's going to cost votes for the Democratic party.
Disagree..who said, 'it's the economy stupid'? Altho lots of fervor here about any 'gun issue', for main street, it's all about jobs, money, heath care..etc..Gun issues for the vast unaffiliated middle of the voting public, who live mainly in suburbia, is pretty far down the 'list'. People there read about 'gun violence' but in their daily lives, they worry about their mortgage, their car payment, their health care..

IMHO
"I like taking guns away early," Trump said. "Take the guns first, go through due process second."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 381145002/

"It's the economy stupid." is attributed to James Carville in the 1992 Clinton Campaign.


Sure bread and butter issues are important to voters, but crime and safety are also important to them. Urban voters and rural voters aren't the same and the ability to purchase firearms is restricted by states and localities. Some people are single issue voters and for some people that issue is firearms, for others it's reproductive rights or illegal immigration or small business interests or universal healthcare...and for the rest of use we prioritize.

There is no end to the restrictions that anti-gunners can think up and the restrictions aren't based on research of what works. So gun owners have gotten to the point of saying "no" to all gun restrictions, they are never ending.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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highdesert wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:18 am There is no end to the restrictions that anti-gunners can think up and the restrictions aren't based on research of what works. So gun owners have gotten to the point of saying "no" to all gun restrictions, they are never ending.
Precisely. Add to that they are ineffective and anti Civil Rights. How about a "leader" lead us down a path to understanding root causes of violence and implement good policies there instead? Fuck, I might just want to vote for such a leader rather than the continued lesser of two evils proposition voting is currently. I'd even donate to such a leader's campaign coffers. Same goes for leadership on all the other issues I find even more important that are largely ignored. See, the thing is, if we address the root causes of violence, we will have necessarily addressed the vast majority of societies ills. So, it's a win win, so to speak. But we are dreadfully short on "leaders" and overly endowed with money sucking politicians.

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featureless wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:36 am
highdesert wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:18 am There is no end to the restrictions that anti-gunners can think up and the restrictions aren't based on research of what works. So gun owners have gotten to the point of saying "no" to all gun restrictions, they are never ending.
Precisely. Add to that they are ineffective and anti Civil Rights. How about a "leader" lead us down a path to understanding root causes of violence and implement good policies there instead? Fuck, I might just want to vote for such a leader rather than the continued lesser of two evils proposition voting is currently. I'd even donate to such a leader's campaign coffers. Same goes for leadership on all the other issues I find even more important that are largely ignored. See, the thing is, if we address the root causes of violence, we will have necessarily addressed the vast majority of societies ills. So, it's a win win, so to speak. But we are dreadfully short on "leaders" and overly endowed with money sucking politicians.
Hear hear! Agree!
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Biden elaborates on what firearms he wants to ban

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See, the thing is, if we address the root causes of violence, we will have necessarily addressed the vast majority of societies ills. So, it's a win win, so to speak. But we are dreadfully short on "leaders" and overly endowed with money sucking politicians.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/briefi ... -overdose/
The Administration’s major investment of $10.7 billion in the Department of Health and Human Services includes funding to expand access to substance use prevention, treatment, harm reduction, and recovery support services; as well as funding to bolster the Nation’s behavioral health infrastructure. Notably, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration’s (SAMHSA) FY22 request includes $3.5 billion for the Substance Abuse Prevention and Treatment Block Grant, which for the first time includes a 10% set aside for recovery services. At the Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA), $705.0 million in funding is requested in FY 2022 to support the substance use disorder responses in community health centers and in rural America.
He's doing more than most others with mental health issues.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

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tonguengroover wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:31 am He's doing more than most others with mental health issues.
Yes, that is promising. But it is also a drop in the bucket. While mental health is a component to some firearm homicides, it is not a very big one.

Looking at gun homicide statistics, the vast majority of it is poor black/brown young men shooting each other with handguns. That's not a mental health issue (in the classic sense). That's not an "assault rifle" or magazine capacity issue (which seems to be the proffered salve to end "gun violence"). That's a social justice/equity/education/poverty/drug war issue. Our system of incarceration and waring on drugs has only further entrenched those problems.

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featureless wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:41 am
tonguengroover wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:31 am He's doing more than most others with mental health issues.
Yes, that is promising. But it is also a drop in the bucket. While mental health is a component to some firearm homicides, it is not a very big one.

Looking at gun homicide statistics, the vast majority of it is poor black/brown young men shooting each other with handguns. That's not a mental health issue (in the classic sense). That's not an "assault rifle" or magazine capacity issue (which seems to be the proffered salve to end "gun violence"). That's a social justice/equity/education/poverty/drug war issue. Our system of incarceration and waring on drugs has only further entrenched those problems.

I agree featureless. In general I support what Biden is doing, it's a zillion times better than Trump.

You're right, mental health is a broad topic that touches not only disorders with psychiatric/medical connections like schizophrenia, bi-polar, drug abuse, but others like homelessness, employment instability that are indirectly related and maybe the terms counseling and coaching might be better for them. And treating the PTSD in our cities plagued by drugs and gangs and shootings.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Hope everyone actually read the entire article. It's way more than mental health. The funding is also about drug abuse. The drug abuser buys drugs from gangs and guess what? Thats where the violence come in. Everyone then feels the need to have a gun to protect against gangs. I would too.
Assholes abusing and killing their wives is also a huge unaddressed issue.
I know a high percentage of people with mental health issues are not violent. Can you say a crazy trumper/QAnon is mentally disabled? Quite assuredly IMO.

You can't just make blanket statements like - Biden's doing nothing.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

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I had to go back and read the whole statement. In a way that might piss off Big Pharma, it truly does focus on treatments, prevention, and supply reduction. Around here we could sure use some meth reduction: out in the boonies is where we get all the lab fires from illicit meth labs. Dumbest fuckers you'd ever meet. I'd like to see them interdicted and treated, that's for sure.

This is hard to oppose. But we loves us some air bucks, invented by Alexander Hamilton. After the war for independence he said, "Hey (State), you owe us buncha bucks. But you're good, right?" "Right." So Hamilton made an entry in another column. And thus was born what we see now. Air bucks. But if they treat abusers, build roads and bridges, and incarcerate treasonous con-weasels, I'm good. Oh. And our retirements, my wife and me. Big Hamilton fans.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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sikacz wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:33 am Universal background checks are only a good idea if the system is open to all and free. Otherwise it’s a way to prevent the poor and disadvantaged from access to guns. So under the current system no thanks. How about a universal background check to vote? Would that be a good idea as well. Perhaps a $15 fee every time you go vote. Would you consider that ok? Perhaps address the underlying causes of violence. Also 21 is an arbitrary age, people vote at 18 and can serve their country. Perhaps voting should be raised to 40, also just as arbitrary.
You have to register to vote.

Think that through. Think that all the way through.

Voter ID? You have to pay to get any of the acceptable forms, and they limit access to those. Voting is absolutely the last right you want to compare to here.

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wings wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:35 pm
sikacz wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:33 am Universal background checks are only a good idea if the system is open to all and free. Otherwise it’s a way to prevent the poor and disadvantaged from access to guns. So under the current system no thanks. How about a universal background check to vote? Would that be a good idea as well. Perhaps a $15 fee every time you go vote. Would you consider that ok? Perhaps address the underlying causes of violence. Also 21 is an arbitrary age, people vote at 18 and can serve their country. Perhaps voting should be raised to 40, also just as arbitrary.
You have to register to vote.

Think that through. Think that all the way through.

Voter ID? You have to pay to get any of the acceptable forms, and they limit access to those. Voting is absolutely the last right you want to compare to here.
Those are infringements too. Yes, I do want to compare it. If people had to pay each time they vote and prove they are not a danger to others by having a background check for each election then it would be comparable. I show a drivers license for both voting and buying guns, but I have to go through a background check and pay a fee each time for a gun purchase. That doesn’t happen when I vote. So yes, I’ll compare them.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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