Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

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They keep trying this, and they ALWAYS lose this battle. There must be something else going on...do Republicans see big increases in contributions when they do this? Because they ALWAYS have to capitulate, because non of their big donors are going to support putting the US into a recession and defaulting on our debt. And they typically take a shellacking in the press. So what do they get from this fight they keep starting but never win?
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

2
They only do this when they aren't in power. When they are in power deficits and the debt ceiling doesn't matter, as long as Wall Street and the big contributors make money.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

3
Well yeah, but why do they always pick a fight they lose EVERY TIME? Come on, they're grifters, so what's the grift? They have to be getting something out of this. They don't do political theater for no purposes, so what are they getting out of this fight?

We ridicule Trump, Gaetz, and MTG for their craziness, and they each get nothing but bad press. But they get individual contributions by the bucket load every time they utter something crazy... Its their grift...be the crazy one and the real crazies will send you all their money. I'm just wondering if it works that way during these debt ceiling fights; because I can't see anything else they take away from these fights.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

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We'll start going into default in November according to Janet Yellen, if the debt ceiling isn't raised. The infrastructure bill is still in the House being pushed by the moderates and the progressives are holding it hostage until their "human infrastructure" bill passes. The cost of those two bills is over $5 trillion.
Congress is fast approaching its deadline to raise the debt ceiling or risk defaulting on the nation's debt, and, as of now, there's no serious plan to stave off what many members are calling the worst-case scenario.

Why it matters: The U.S. has never defaulted on its debt. If Congress doesn't take "extraordinary measures" to finance the government, it would "likely cause irreparable damage to the U.S. economy and global financial markets," Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned last week.

Driving the news: Democrats are banking on at least 10 Republicans to eventually give in and vote for a debt increase.

But Republicans insist they're not bluffing and have remained united in their insistence that if the U.S. defaults on its debt, the blood will be on Democrats' hands.

“It's their obligation. They should step up. It's hard being in the majority. They are the ones who will raise the debt limit,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told Punchbowl News.

What we're hearing: Axios spoke with more than a dozen senators this week about how they think Congress should handle the stalemate.

Democrats largely told us they think Republicans are willing to get as close to the deadline as possible but then will fold after banks, lobbyists and donors call them.

"Oh come on, they're not gonna let us default," said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.). He said he and his Democratic colleagues think the most likely scenario is Republicans "fuss, fuss, fuss, then do it" in a continuing resolution.

Some Republicans, though, said they're willing to let a default happen and blame it on Democrats.

"It's going to be entirely determined by the Democrats," said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), one of the few moderate Republicans usually willing to break with her party. "They are the ones whose actions are making the increase in the debt limit necessary."
What they're saying:

Coons: "We came right up against [default] once," referring to a 2013 clash. "And the amount of input senior Republicans got from the financial community, I mean, this would be catastrophically foolish."

Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.): "I've seen nothing but resolve on the parts of Republicans. ... It'd be really, really, really difficult for Democrats to get Republicans to help them raise the debt ceiling under any circumstance right now ... even if it leads to a government shutdown."
Sen. Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo.): "I am a 'No,'" regardless of whether a no-vote means the government defaults on debt.

Between the lines: In the coming weeks, Democrats plan to lean even harder into their argument Republicans should give in because Democrats raised the limit by trillions of dollars during the Trump administration for COVID-19 relief.

Many Republicans say they don't care if Democrats accuse them of a double standard.
They argue spending on pandemic relief is very different from funding Democratic plans to spend trillions on Biden's progressive policy agenda.

"That's like us voting for their [$3.5 trillion] program, if we open the door for them to do it," Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), a member of the Senate Finance Committee, told Axios.
https://www.axios.com/the-debt-ceiling- ... 4c4d9.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

7
McConnell, Manchin, Sinema and Pharma Dems Are Preparing to Torpedo Everything

Portrait of a fiend in the wild: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has made it abundantly clear that there will be no Republican votes to avert the looming debt ceiling crisis. McConnell’s feckless rationale? “Let me make it perfectly clear,” he declared last week. “The country must never default. The debt ceiling will need to be raised. But who does that depends on who the American people elect.”

Translation: Because Democrats control both chambers of Congress and the White House, they alone are responsible for raising the debt ceiling. Simply put, no such rule exists, nor has it ever existed. It was certainly not in play back in 2019, when then-Majority Leader McConnell sought — and received — bipartisan support on the very same issue. “The people in Kentucky who know him,” notes long-time Democratic foe Rep. John Yarmuth, “understand that he can’t be shamed into changing.”

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen made the stakes clear in a Sunday Wall Street Journal editorial. “The U.S. has never defaulted. Not once,” she wrote. “Doing so would likely precipitate a historic financial crisis that would compound the damage of the continuing public health emergency.” In 2011, even the (McConnell-driven) threat of a default sent the economy reeling. Combine the impact of default with what looks to be another COVID winter gnawing into the economy, and a tidy little recipe for disaster awaits.

McConnell seemingly could not care less. His interest appears entirely political and utterly without shame: He wants his people to go into the 2022 midterms with “tax-and-spend liberals” on every tongue. The same Republicans who aided the Trump administration’s wild financial giveaways to corporations and the wealthy now intend to use the economy itself against President Biden’s legislative attempt to address climate change and expand the social safety net, and all as a means of regaining the majority.

McConnell has plenty of help in this particularly nefarious endeavor; shamelessness, like gold, seems to have its own gravitational pull. “The Democrats have added enormous amounts of debt,” echoed GOP Sen. Susan Collins, “including the $1.9 trillion package, now $3.5 trillion on top of that, so they bear the responsibility for increasing the debt limit.” Never mind the stimulus package probably saved the economy during the most dire portion of the pandemic, or that Collins herself voted to explode the debt multiple times during the Trump years.

One disaster of this magnitude would usually suffice, but at present there are multiple meteors hurtling toward us. Congressional Democrats, seeking to use whatever leverage is available, are tying the debt vote to the also-looming vote to fund the federal government. If McConnell holds the line, there will be insufficient votes to pass either (assuming the inevitable GOP filibuster), and we could be looking at a double-barreled fiscal calamity at midnight on September 30.

With less than 11 days to go before that whole fiasco hits the zero hour, Democrats are also facing the threat of collapse within their own caucus. Joe Manchin, the coal baron senator from West Virginia, has used his swing-vote muscle to position himself and the Energy Committee he chairs as the authors of the climate provisions in Biden’s massive budget bill. He is widely expected to throw a number of lifelines to the energy interests that pour campaign cash into his own pockets, and it is entirely possible the Progressive Caucus could bolt rather than vote for a polluted compromise.

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona has joined a trio of pharmaceutical industry-bought House members in refusing to support the Medicare/prescription drug reforms that are crucial to funding the overall legislation. “The Arizona Democrat is opposed to the current prescription drug pricing proposals in both the House and Senate bills,” reports Politico. “They added that, at this point, she also doesn’t support a pared-back alternative being pitched by House Democratic centrists that would limit the drugs subject to Medicare negotiation.”

Halloween could be a genuinely terrifying holiday, when the people learn to their sorrow that vampires are not just real, but are pulling down government paychecks.
In the House, Speaker Nancy Pelosi is facing a perilous September 27 deadline that could potentially sink both the budget bill and the infrastructure bill. Conservative Democrats, at the frantic urging of an army of corporate and business lobbyists, want the two bills voted on separately. That way, they can pass the watered-down infrastructure bill and then kill the budget bill. The Progressive Caucus has vowed — if somewhat vaguely — to defeat the infrastructure bill if both are not combined into a single package for passage, and they have more than enough votes to do it. Whether they will follow through on the threat is the question of the hour, and that hour is up on the 27th unless they bump the deadline.

Finally, the Senate parliamentarian has scotched the immigration provisions within the budget bill, ruling they do not fit the requirements for reconciliation — a tactic that allows a bill to pass by simple majority if it affects the budget. The parliamentarian last ruled “No” on the attempt to include a minimum wage hike in the $1.9 trillion stimulus package back in February.

Progressive Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are among those demanding that Majority Leader Schumer ignore or replace the parliamentarian, as the GOP did the last time such a decision went against them. “An unelected person isn’t a real barrier to the much-needed investments we were elected to make,” Tlaib wrote on Twitter. “Ignore this ruling or get a new one. The GOP didn’t hesitate when they pushed their corporate agenda.”

A number of prominent Democrats made the TV rounds on Sunday, trying to put a happy face on the roiled circumstances. “We’re going to have to work it out, as we did with the American Rescue Plan,” Sen. Bernie Sanders told CBS News. “Now is the time to stand up to powerful special interests. Now is the time to start representing working families.” Ultimately, he predicted that, “because of the pressure of the American people we’re going to come together again and do what has to be done.”

Let’s hope he’s right. The axis of McConnell, Manchin, Sinema and the House Pharma Dems are hard at work even at this moment, and it is going to be a wild week in Washington. Halloween could be a genuinely terrifying holiday, when the people learn to their sorrow that vampires are not just real, but are pulling down government paychecks.
https://truthout.org/articles/mcconnell ... verything/

With Moscow Mitch and his Repugs it is nothing but a need for power. If they can't have the power to do as they please then nobody can have it. They are just following the playground rules as set down by TFG. If I can't make the rules and win, then I will just go home with the bat and ball and nobody will play.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

9
The way to get Manchin to change his tune is for the Dems to tell him if he doesn't get in line there will be no federal money going to West Virginia as long as he is in office.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

10
We don't want to go into default, that injures everyone, just as the economy is recovering from COVID shutdowns. Pensions could be affected, there could be runs on banks and everything else that happens when people don't feel safe.

It doesn't really make a difference how Manchin and Sinema vote, Democrats can't pass this by reconciliation. It will take Republican votes to get past the filibuster
What is a US debt default?

At its most basic level, a default is when a person or an entity cannot repay a debt on time. For instance, when a person can't make a payment on a mortgage or a car loan.

When a country does this, it's known as a sovereign default. This is when the country cannot repay its debt, which typically takes the form of bonds.

So if the US were to default, it would essentially stop paying the money it owed US Treasury bond holders.

A quick refresher: the US government spends more money than it collects in taxes. So to make up the shortfall, it raises funds by asking investors to buy US Treasury bonds. Investors, such as the Chinese government and pension funds, do this because these bonds are seen as a safe place to invest money.

What are the consequences of a US default?

No one really knows exactly what would happen, but the likelihood is that markets around the world would plunge and global interest rates would rise.

This is because if the US government could not repay the money it owed bondholders, the value of the bonds would decrease. And the yield - the return the government pays to an investor - would rise. This is because it would be perceived as a less safe investment.

This would prompt interest rates around the world, which are often tied to those of US Treasuries, to spike.

Furthermore, the impact on the US's creditors could be dire. Japan, for instance, owns about $1.14 trillion of US debt - which is equivalent to 20% of its annual economic output.

In the US, Goldman Sachs estimates that $175bn would immediately be withdrawn from the US economy and it could lead to a very deep recession.

How does the US government pay its bills anyway?

Strangely, no one really knows exactly how it works.

Each day, the US Treasury receives a little over two million bills from various federal agencies.

According to analysts at Credit Suisse, there are three main offices that pay those bills: the Department of Defense Disbursing Offices, the Bureau of the Fiscal Service and the Financial Management Service.

Technically, the payment systems can be turned on - to make payments - or off - but not much else.

If prioritisation were possible, the US Treasury would probably turn off the tap at the Department of Defense Disbursing Offices and the Financial Management Service. That would leave the Bureau of Fiscal Service, which pays money to bondholders.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-24453400


Yellen is now saying that default will occur in October.
The “extraordinary measures” that the Treasury Department has been employing to finance the government on a temporary basis since Aug. 1 will be exhausted next month, Ms. Yellen said in a letter to lawmakers. She added that the exact timing remained unclear but that time to avert an economic catastrophe was running out.

“Once all available measures and cash on hand are fully exhausted, the United States of America would be unable to meet its obligations for the first time in our history,” Ms. Yellen wrote.

To delay a default, Treasury has in the last month suspended investments in the Civil Service Retirement and Disability Fund, the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund and the Government Securities Investment Fund of the Federal Employees Retirement System Thrift Savings Plan.

The distribution of pandemic relief payments this year and uncertainty over incoming tax payments this month have made it more challenging than usual to predict when funds will run out. Ms. Yellen said that a default would cause “irreparable harm” to the U.S. economy and to global financial markets and that even coming close to defaulting could be harmful.

“We have learned from past debt limit impasses that waiting until the last minute to suspend or increase the debt limit can cause serious harm to business and consumer confidence, raise short-term borrowing costs for taxpayers and negatively impact the credit rating of the United States,” she wrote.
The showdown has again put the parties into a game of chicken, with a debt default and potential economic crisis as the consequence.

Ms. Pelosi, at her weekly news conference on Wednesday, said emphatically that Democrats would not include a statutory increase in the government’s borrowing authority in a budget bill being drafted this month. That bill, under complicated budget rules, could pass without Republican votes in the Senate.

Instead, Democratic leaders will dare Senate Republicans to filibuster a bill that does raise the debt ceiling.

“We Democrats supported lifting the debt ceiling” during the Trump administration, she said, “because it was the responsible thing to do.” She added, “I would hope that the Republicans would act in a similarly responsible way.”

Democrats have several options they are considering. The government will run out of operating funds at the end of the month, so a debt ceiling increase could be attached to a stopgap spending measure — meaning a Republican filibuster would not only jeopardize the government’s full faith and credit, it could shut down the government.

Democrats could also attach it to a major infrastructure bill that passed the Senate with bipartisan support and is supposed to get a House vote by Sept. 27.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/busi ... fault.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

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We just have to remember the rules.
Rule Number One.-Deficits and debt ceilings don't matter. But, only when the Repugs are in total control.
Rule Number Two- Deficits and debt ceilings do matter and is a big deal. But only when the Dems are in control.
Refer to Rule one when Repugs are in control , Refer to Rule Two when Dems are in control of at least one branch of government or house of Congress.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Debt ceiling, you'd think the R's would learn

12
TrueTexan wrote:We just have to remember the rules.
Rule Number One.-Deficits and debt ceilings don't matter. But, only when the Repugs are in total control.
Rule Number Two- Deficits and debt ceilings do matter and is a big deal. But only when the Dems are in control.
Refer to Rule one when Repugs are in control , Refer to Rule Two when Dems are in control of at least one branch of government or house of Congress.
Yup, exactly. Nobody takes them seriously on this anymore after all the deficit spending for the Orang God King’s billionaire buddies not to pay taxes at all.


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