Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

1
Police shoot 61 year old white male armed with a knife while confined to a motorized wheel chair, 8 times in the back and sides, with the ninth to the head, all for shoplifting a tool box and threatening the store security guy with a knife (while confined to the wheelchair etc, so not a lot of threat there unless the guy attempted to get up out of the wheel chair which he never did).

https://tucson.com/news/local/watch-now ... in-article

https://www.newsweek.com/tucson-police- ... ir-1654733

TPD has fired the shooter, and it sounds like murder charges are next to me...

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

5
I will want to see the body cam footage. I have a hard time believing shooting was the ONLY viable option available to them. Sure there could be a situation where shooting was called for, but I will be a skeptic until proven otherwise.

Give me pepper spray, a night stick an just a couple feet of room and I will win that fight 100% of the time. Blind him with the spray, use your feet to keep his wheelchair at bay, and the stick to knock away the knife, or make body strikes. Was a taser used? How many officers were on scene. If the number is greater than one, my belief in a justified shooting just went down by about 300%.

I want answers.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

6
FrontSight wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:00 am I will want to see the body cam footage. I have a hard time believing shooting was the ONLY viable option available to them. Sure there could be a situation where shooting was called for, but I will be a skeptic until proven otherwise.

Give me pepper spray, a night stick an just a couple feet of room and I will win that fight 100% of the time. Blind him with the spray, use your feet to keep his wheelchair at bay, and the stick to knock away the knife, or make body strikes. Was a taser used? How many officers were on scene. If the number is greater than one, my belief in a justified shooting just went down by about 300%.

I want answers.
Same, video. A person in a wheelchair is not the same threat as a fully mobile person. It's why we have ADA accessibility standards. Not to put too fine a point, but nine shots and the last to the head. Show me the video that all that was necessary to stop an attack if there was one. It all sounds a bit fishy.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

10
I don't see a situation that would even make me think of my gun. Surround him, tackle him, and disarm him. There were 4 officers on scene. You trying to tell me 4 fully ambulatory officers can't handle a senior citizen in a wheelchair? For fuck's sake!!!

Watch the news in the future... You're going to find out that cop has been problematic and the department probably knew he was a problem officer. You don't just wake up and randomly do something that crazy. I expect we'll find out he has a good bit of history.
Last edited by FrontSight on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

11
FrontSight wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:52 am Okay, just watched the video... ARREST THAT COP!!! That was straight up murder by gross incompetence.
Video report says the cop in question has been fired, and the DA is considering prosecution...which is the right course of action.

https://youtu.be/6sHRMERov0E
Couldn’t tell much except that person wasn’t a credible threat. Was he going back into the store? I had the sound off, but his actions didn’t seem threatening. Was there a knife? Talk about disgusting excessive use of force and there was more than two officers. Shit.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

12
FrontSight wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 am I don't see a situation that would even make me think of my gun. Surround him, tackle him, and disarm him. There were 4 officers on scene. You trying to tell me 4 fully ambulatory officers can't handle a senior citizen in a wheelchair? For fuck's sake!!!
Exactly. Don’t officers carry batons anymore. Distract and hit his wheelchair in the vitals. Not going anywhere without current. Should have done anything but shoot him. All four failed. All four should face charges.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

13
Based on the video, this cop shot into the store! Lucky he didn't kill anyone else. I suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility that the old man could have been using the chair for convenience rather than absolute necessity, but even then, does an old man with a knife really pose a direct threat to shoppers when there are cops right there with him? I kind of doubt that he was going to ditch the chair and turn into some sort of superhuman ninja. That chair was moving slow, so surely the cops could have got around him and cleared the store. Hopefully this fuckhead does serious time.
Crow
Minute Of Average

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

14
When I was a Paramedic, I'll bet I disarmed a wheelchair bound senior citizen on average of once or twice a year. Never was myself or anyone of my crew armed, and it was always easily done. Never have I been cut, or stabbed, nor any of my crew. I have done it multiple times all by myself. Just kick the wheelchair over, and it's pretty easy from there.

That was a VERY easy situation to handle if the option of murder never comes to mind.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

16
Watch the videos attached to the articles!

The deceased geezer appeared to be holding a pack of smokes and a phone when shot in the back and sides/head. I didn't see the knife which had been displayed earlier to a store security guard, and the shooter fired across the store entrance not into it with what appeared to be bags of fertilizers or something as a backstop.

The only thing at play is the use of deadly force, which IMO in this situation was in no way warranted.

I'm as pro-blue as I can be, but when they're wrong, they're wrong, and in this case as in many others someone died needlessly (a crippled old man in a wheel chair with a pocket knife, without firearms, explosives, or bio-weapons etc, just doesn't seem that dangerous to me?

Sure, the shooter wanted to keep him from going into the store which was prudent, but OC or Taser could've been used IMO (NOT 9 shots)!

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

17
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:27 pm BTW that isn't a store owned powered shopping cart. That is a standard powered wheelchair that can easily be made immobile.
Realized that but still lots of people can lunge out off a wheelchair and stab you.
And the guy was an ex con with a long rap sheet. He wasn't just a poor ole decrepit old man. He knew better.
Also the Leo sad he didn't have time and or distance and more stopped him from using his taser or spray.
"The Worst Monsters are the ones we create. We are the monsters"

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

19
Shooting nine times is the crux of this for me. If he had shot once he might have been able to justify that as a legitimate attempt to stop the guy by injuring him or disabling the wheelchair, but no. He just opened up and shot eight times rapidly, then a slight delay, and then a ninth shot (and I wonder if the ninth was the head shot). He was intentionally shooting to kill.
98+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

20
Eris wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:58 pm Shooting nine times is the crux of this for me. If he had shot once he might have been able to justify that as a legitimate attempt to stop the guy by injuring him or disabling the wheelchair, but no. He just opened up and shot eight times rapidly, then a slight delay, and then a ninth shot (and I wonder if the ninth was the head shot). He was intentionally shooting to kill.
That part is at least consistent with LE training.
Cops are trained to stop. As in, you shoot until they have completely stopped, and are on the ground. The wheelchair was still rolling, so he continued shooting. That part was done as per training.
Watch any officer involved shooting in the past 5-10 years, and you'll see no one gets shot once anymore... They shoot all the way to the the ground. (BTW - I'm not endorsing this practice, just saying that's current training doctrine for most LE agencies across the nation).

This was a cop who really wanted to use his gun, and he murdered someone.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

21
FrontSight wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:19 pm That part is at least consistent with LE training.
Cops are trained to stop. As in, you shoot until they have completely stopped, and are on the ground. The wheelchair was still rolling, so he continued shooting. That part was done as per training.
Watch any officer involved shooting in the past 5-10 years, and you'll see no one gets shot once anymore... They shoot all the way to the the ground. (BTW - I'm not endorsing this practice, just saying that's current training doctrine for most LE agencies across the nation).

This was a cop who really wanted to use his gun, and he murdered someone.
Yeah, I figured. Heck, even around here we say you shoot until the threat is stopped.

But there was no threat. The guy was a) in a wheelchair, b) had his back to the cops, c) did not obviously have any weapon in hand, and d) was not near any bystanders.

No threat means the cop really shouldn't have fired even once.
98+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

22
Eris wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:24 pm
FrontSight wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:19 pm That part is at least consistent with LE training.
Cops are trained to stop. As in, you shoot until they have completely stopped, and are on the ground. The wheelchair was still rolling, so he continued shooting. That part was done as per training.
Watch any officer involved shooting in the past 5-10 years, and you'll see no one gets shot once anymore... They shoot all the way to the the ground. (BTW - I'm not endorsing this practice, just saying that's current training doctrine for most LE agencies across the nation).

This was a cop who really wanted to use his gun, and he murdered someone.
Yeah, I figured. Heck, even around here we say you shoot until the threat is stopped.

But there was no threat. The guy was a) in a wheelchair, b) had his back to the cops, c) did not obviously have any weapon in hand, and d) was not near any bystanders.

No threat means the cop really shouldn't have fired even once.
^^^THIS!^^^

...plus, the shooter could've easily deployed OC, as he had ample opportunity to prior to the guy nearing the doorway, and he could have done so without getting directly in front of the guy's wheelchair in case the victim was faking.

Sure, you do shoot until the threat stops, but this victim was not posing a threat at the time of the shooting, so a dose of non-lethal should've been used first (OC IMO, as a Taser might have had problems with someone sitting with his back covered and wearing baggy cloths).

Re: Shooting of Shoplifting Suspect in Wheelchair

24
tonguengroover wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:08 pm Yeah yeah, the armchair pundits said the same thing about Rittenhouse but turned out he was in fear of his life. I don't like it but it is what it is.
We will see I guess when all the evidence is submitted.
Well while people in wheelchairs and Rascals can be dangerous when watching the footage previous to the shooting the cop was walking around the parking lot with the suspect. The cop walked very close several times and seemingly had no concerns the guy was suddenly going to attack him.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron