Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Resume wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:06 pm
sikacz wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:37 pm
Resume wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:25 pm
sikacz wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:48 pm
He’s an idiot, I won’t vote for an idiot.
Then you can't vote for Abbott either because his is just as much an idiot, if not more so.
What makes you think I would ever vote for a republican. You must be new here. Just to clarify this is the Liberal Gun Club, not the Democratic Party Gun Club.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you'd actually vote for Abbott, just saying he's an idiot. As far as a third party candidate, are there any that could actually give Abbott a run?
Greens and a few others run candidates, don’t recall if one is running at this time. It’ll be blank if there’s no suitable candidate for me.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Not to be left out, Bernie Sanders says government needs to ban "assault weapons."
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1 ... NocXQ&s=19
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Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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kmerian wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 11:49 am
FrontSight wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:24 pm I generally don't comment on these threads, because they disgust me a bit. Not trying to be a dick, but on every gun forum, when lives are lost people state their regret...and then its all about them and the gun control movement. Its the same EXACT discussion every bloody time, and it really makes me sick people want to talk about their gun rights / or more gun control when children have been murdered again. WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT? Nothing is going to change!!!
I have watched these discussions play out identically since Patrick Purdy.
Sorry, needed to vent. Call me a dick and tell me to go away.
I agree, Absolutely no one is saying "We never used to have incidents like this, even though there was a time you could order high capacity weapons in the mail, why don't we take a good look and see what's changed?"

No one, ON EITHER SIDE, is saying that.

The Pro 2A side keeps saying it's a mental health issue, but as an anti-gun friend of mine pointed out, no pro-gun politician has proposed any mental health reforms.

We need to do something.
Of course not..these government assholes won't EVER do anything that effects their ride bowl($$).

As an aside, I watched eMpTy greene rail on the floor of the house complaining about 'but no money for baby formula'..than voted against the bill to help provide baby formula..disgusting shits.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Resume wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:10 pm Are any elected representatives members of the Liberal Gun Club? If so, are they doing any voicing the need for better mental health care? Can we do anything about that? Can we as members start making some real noise about the issue. Like it or not, gun-control legislation is coming, and really who can blame those who are clamoring for it when it just seems as if it is never fucking going to stop; I was near tears myself and wondering if maybe they're right.

Also, we need to stop calling these shooters "fucking nuts" while doing nothing about getting them the help they need before they get this far gone. I know, some can't be reached and we'll always have this sort of horror whether it be with guns, a van plowing through a crowd, or a bomb in a public building.

I dunno, but I'm as exhausted with this shit as any gun confiscation advocate.

ETA: I see the NRA is continuing on with its plans to hold its annual meeting in Houston starting Friday;
attending with be the oily Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott. Seems a bit tone-deaf to me.
trump the traitor too..these scumballs will NEVER do anything to upset the all mighty NR-FuckingA...these government shit-heads are bought and paid for by the NRA.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Texas deputy showed schoolkids presentation mocking 'liberals' for fearing AR-15 one day after Uvalde shooting

On Thursday, The Daily Beast reported that a school in Fort Worth, Texas is apologizing for a career-day presentation given by a Tarrant County deputy to kids mocking "liberals" for fearing AR-15 style semiautomatic rifles — just a day after an 18-year-old gunman used two such rifles to massacre 19 children and two teachers at a school in Uvalde a few hundred miles away.
https://www.rawstory.com/ar-15-in-texas/

This was in the FWISD at Daggett Elementary school for a career day. If nothing else it was in very poor taste for the Deputy to show it the day after the school shooting in Uvalde. Just another case of head up ass, not thinking.

Daggett Elementary is in the near southside Fort Worth area that is majority working class Hispanic.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Police who responded to the Texas school massacre have been accused of being “unprepared” and failing to respond quickly enough after the shooter opened fire. Onlookers said they had to urge officers to move into the Uvalde primary school as the AR-15-wielding assailant gunned down two teachers and 19 pupils. The father of 10-year-old victim Jacklyn Cazares said he even suggested he could go in himself with other bystanders as he was frustrated police were not doing it themselves.

Details are starting to emerge of the attack and the 18-year-old shooter behind it, who has been named as Salvador Ramos. Ramos barricaded himself inside a classroom before killing the fourth-grade students at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde on Tuesday.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 87629.html

Abbott charged Texas DPS and the Rangers with investigating this alongside local police. Hopefully we get all the facts.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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So the pro-gun solution of providing armed guards at schools doesn't seem to work. This is now the second high profile school shooting where there was an armed officer on scene who opted not to go in. Officers DO NOT have a duty to respond according to the Supreme Court, so if they don't want to go in, nothing can make them go in, and you can't fire them for not going in. So what's the next genius idea people?

Cant ban guns, cant provide security. This nation is fucking pathetic.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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I don't know about you all but since I always carry I'd be running in there especially if my kid was in there.
I mean WTF, who could sit there and listen to rounds going off?!!
If I didn't have a gun I would insist the officer there give it the fuck up!

I don't carry to protect other people besides my family but this shit is different.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Police were urged to charge into a deadly school shooting in the US state of Texas by onlookers, witnesses say, with one suggesting he considered doing so himself as he became frustrated.
Eyewitness Juan Carranza told the Associated Press that women shouted at officers to "go in there". But the 24-year-old, who witnessed the scene at the Robb Elementary School from outside his house, said police did not enter.

Javier Cazares, whose daughter was killed in the attack, told the news agency he suggested running in with other onlookers because the police "weren't doing anything".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61588274

Supposedly the lesson that all law enforcement learned from Columbine is you don't wait for SWAT, you go in and neutralize the shooter(s). Don't know what orders were given to its officers by Uvalde Police commanders. Hopefully the media do more digging, the British media isn't afraid.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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The difference in the above approach is one is an enumerated right and one should be an enumerated right. Like it or not (and I don't), abortion is not in the constitution and arms are. We need to get our shit straight for sure, but restrictions on a fundamental right (for those who are not violent felons or mentally unstable) isn't it. What others have said about raising everyone up through social and medical equity programs is the way. Bans are just pissing in the wind.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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The anti-gun media keeps the drum beat going and going, it's revenue for them. I always remember Prof James Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University.
Mass school shootings are incredibly rare events. In research publishing later this year, Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel found that on average, mass murders occur between 20 and 30 times per year, and about one of those incidents on average takes place at a school.
Four times the number of children were killed in schools in the early 1990s than today, Fox said.

“There is not an epidemic of school shootings,” he said, adding that more kids are killed each year from pool drownings or bicycle accidents. There are around 55 million school children in the United States, and on average over the past 25 years, about 10 students per year were killed by gunfire at school, according to Fox and Fridel’s research.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/2 ... cher-says/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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highdesert wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm
Supposedly the lesson that all law enforcement learned from Columbine is you don't wait for SWAT, you go in and neutralize the shooter(s). Don't know what orders were given to its officers by Uvalde Police commanders. Hopefully the media do more digging, the British media isn't afraid.
Again, officers have no requirement to respond under the law. So it really doesn't matter what Uvalde Police commanders said...their inaction is constitutionally protected.

https://mises.org/power-market/police-h ... -yet-again



So if we can't depend on armed officers on scene, what's the solution?
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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featureless wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:46 pm The difference in the above approach is one is an enumerated right and one should be an enumerated right. Like it or not (and I don't), abortion is not in the constitution and arms are. We need to get our shit straight for sure, but restrictions on a fundamental right (for those who are not violent felons or mentally unstable) isn't it. What others have said about raising everyone up through social and medical equity programs is the way. Bans are just pissing in the wind.
The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a fundamental "right to privacy" that protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose whether to have an abortion. Which goes hand in hand with having a gun in your home.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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FrontSight wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:16 pm
highdesert wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm
Supposedly the lesson that all law enforcement learned from Columbine is you don't wait for SWAT, you go in and neutralize the shooter(s). Don't know what orders were given to its officers by Uvalde Police commanders. Hopefully the media do more digging, the British media isn't afraid.
Again, officers have no requirement to respond under the law. So it really doesn't matter what Uvalde Police commanders said...their inaction is constitutionally protected.

https://mises.org/power-market/police-h ... -yet-again



So if we can't depend on armed officers on scene, what's the solution?
The solution is the same that it has always been.

What needs to be done is simple.

First, get rid of all of the mega-schools, put schools back in the neighborhood and small enough that every teacher knows every student by name and no class has more than a dozen kids. But that means no big football stadium. And smaller classes mean more teachers and that means higher taxes.

Second, start active discipline at the earliest stages. If a child is a bully or disruptive then the child gets sent home and provided true counseling. But there is no one at home and both parents (when there is two parents) are working and won't get paid so can't come home.

Third federalize drugs and provide them for free in neighborhood health clinics. But the WAR on DRUGS!

Fourth enact universal health care. But if that happens the drug companies will all stop researching cures. After all no other country makes medicines.

Fifth stop glorifying violence and shooting. But John Wick and Reacher...

Sixth, bring back shooting sports in the middle and upper grades. What, teach kids to shoot?

Seventh, support unionization and narrowing the gap between rich and poor. Make a two income family a choice rather than necessity. But that's SOCIALISM!


And understand that it took about fifty years to screw stuff up this much so it will take another half century or more to fix it.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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highdesert wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:35 am
Police who responded to the Texas school massacre have been accused of being “unprepared” and failing to respond quickly enough after the shooter opened fire. Onlookers said they had to urge officers to move into the Uvalde primary school as the AR-15-wielding assailant gunned down two teachers and 19 pupils. The father of 10-year-old victim Jacklyn Cazares said he even suggested he could go in himself with other bystanders as he was frustrated police were not doing it themselves.

Details are starting to emerge of the attack and the 18-year-old shooter behind it, who has been named as Salvador Ramos. Ramos barricaded himself inside a classroom before killing the fourth-grade students at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde on Tuesday.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 87629.html

Abbott charged Texas DPS and the Rangers with investigating this alongside local police. Hopefully we get all the facts.
From what I understand, FBI has taken over the investigation due to it being a use of force incident by federal agents (Shooter was shot by USBP officers)

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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FrontSight wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:16 pm
So if we can't depend on armed officers on scene, what's the solution?
The solution is the same as what we did for COVID. distant learning. Before y'all discard the idea, bear with me.

My son was in a school that had a Kindergarten first grade combo. classroom. In kindergarten he was doing first grade work. In first grade he was reading and understanding Jurassic Park. He had asked his mother to read it to him and she said, "No, If you have to read it yourself." He basically taught himself to read and understand what he read. He was also reading and understanding my wife's college text on A&P and Microbiology that she used to teach the college courses.

We'll skip ahead to middle school he was the talented gifted skinny tall kid with glasses, braces, and a target for every bully and bully wannabe. Constant issues meeting with teachers and school administrators. We finally pulled him out of public schools and enrolled him in the American School. He completed their courses and was enrolled in the local Community College just before he turned 15. At 18 he went to University and complete a B.S. in chemistry in two years. He is now the Chef De Cuisine at a restaurant in north Texas that charges $70 for a ribeye steak.

He was able to do the American School at his pace and the teachers were great. Because this was many years ago the computer was not part of the instruction materials. They have been at the distant learning education business since 1897.

https://www.americanschoolofcorr.com

There are alternatives using distant learning.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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So my experience is very different...

2019-2020 my wife was the distance learning coordinator for our local school district. I could go on for days, but the short story is; distance learning is failing miserably all across the country. Scores are lower because parents aren't engaged in the process, and there's no one there to get the kids engaged. Distance learning also seems to have a very unusually high number of cheaters who poach their work off the internet; again, because no one is there and they think they can get away with it.

So until the US learns how to do distance learning a whole lot better, I don't see that as a viable option.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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FrontSight wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:01 pm So my experience is very different...

2019-2020 my wife was the distance learning coordinator for our local school district. I could go on for days, but the short story is; distance learning is failing miserably all across the country. Scores are lower because parents aren't engaged in the process, and there's no one there to get the kids engaged. Distance learning also seems to have a very unusually high number of cheaters who poach their work off the internet; again, because no one is there and they think they can get away with it.

So until the US learns how to do distance learning a whole lot better, I don't see that as a viable option.
Teaching and learning via just the internet is non-optimal. It takes real determination to teach or to learn using the system of face on screen plus links. I did it for the last 20 years of my teaching career. I live in rural northern California, so there are widely scattered students. We had "satellite centers" where students would gather to watch my face to face class over video link. Not effective. But my checks never bounced, so I tried to get the best effects out of that kind of set up. Cheating is easy, so I tried to sell "learning" as getting ready to do battle with the world. If you cheat now, you'll lose when it counts. That was the selling point. Could not compete with drugs, the internet, and the opposite sex.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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If the WSJ is to be believed, the perp was outside shooting for 12 minutes prior to entering the building.
https://archive.ph/zg8Kq

There already is significant blowback against the police for somehow not being able to get into the building into which the shooter had walked. If the heat is on law enforcement, LEAs and the unions will step up their participation in the Democrats' campaign to deflect blame onto hardware.

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