Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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sikacz wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 8:29 am So no more keeping a self defense gun and of course peace officers are exempt from storage requirements. The other two are BS as well. I’m not impressed with dem priorities. Another trifecta state, hope Minnesotans are happy now.
A few presidential election forecasts show Minnesota as a swing state, this might not be helpful for Biden in a big hunting state. Democrats are obsessed with thinking that guns and abortion are the only issues that matter to voters, they are not.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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BKinzey wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:54 am
CDFingers wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 9:10 am People could always carry in their homes. Problem solved.

CDF
Silkaz pointed out a hole in your reasoning here. Your flippant reply doesn't resolve the issue with your solution. Here's another one: carrying while sleeping won't work either.
Yeah, so what do you do when you take a shower? Do you bring your gun into the bathroom--if it's stainless, you're good to go--or do you lock it in the safe? When you're sleeping, if you lay your gun on the bedside table, how likely are you to wake up if there's a bad guy in your bedroom bent on swiping the gun? Put it under your pillow if you're afraid. Problem solved.

It seems as if many folks want permission to leave guns just lying around. That's foolish. I will continue to point that out. That's why I did my experiment with carrying an entire day in my house, even cooking and playing guitar. I have the information. Do you? You may think I'm flippant. But that's a response from someone who does not have the data but instead clings to some kind of fantasy that things will always work out your way. Not true. An unsupervised gun is just waiting to be stolen.

If you have troubles with my position, bring it. If you post about unsupervised guns, I will chew on you.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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CDFingers wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 12:11 pm
BKinzey wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:54 am
CDFingers wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 9:10 am People could always carry in their homes. Problem solved.

CDF
Silkaz pointed out a hole in your reasoning here. Your flippant reply doesn't resolve the issue with your solution. Here's another one: carrying while sleeping won't work either.
Yeah, so what do you do when you take a shower? Do you bring your gun into the bathroom--if it's stainless, you're good to go--or do you lock it in the safe? When you're sleeping, if you lay your gun on the bedside table, how likely are you to wake up if there's a bad guy in your bedroom bent on swiping the gun? Put it under your pillow if you're afraid. Problem solved.

It seems as if many folks want permission to leave guns just lying around. That's foolish. I will continue to point that out. That's why I did my experiment with carrying an entire day in my house, even cooking and playing guitar. I have the information. Do you? You may think I'm flippant. But that's a response from someone who does not have the data but instead clings to some kind of fantasy that things will always work out your way. Not true. An unsupervised gun is just waiting to be stolen.

If you have troubles with my position, bring it. If you post about unsupervised guns, I will chew on you.

CDF
Irrelevant. 15 yard penalty, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

2 people pointed out problems with your reasoning. You ran off on tangents. You initially suggested carry was a solution to storage requirements. That's not practical 24/7, Silkaz and I each gave specific examples. Now you are talking about showering with a gun, a time where you carried your gun for a day, putting a gun under your pillow (BTW, can you reference where putting a gun under your pillow would be considered the same as carrying it? Because that's what the discussion is, carrying a gun as a solution to storage requirements by law) and now some generalities about unsupervised guns.

I'm also going to mention I read your post about carrying for a day. It was interesting and worth reading. However I don't think it gives you any status in the current discussion or with the point I made. Since you mentioned "fantasy" and think I am under it, the fantasy is you thinking your one day "experiment" really ads weight to your stated position.

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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My position is that unless you're carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it's stashed, a gun should be locked up. All my efforts with words describe an attempt to unearth the reasoning behind any opposition to that statement. All I have been able to come up with is that a segment of liberal gun owners exists who don't want to do safe storage practices. That's it: they just don't want to.

My carrying experiment is like an election poll: I did it for a representative segment, one day, and extrapolated out from there. I concluded that easily I could follow my principle that the gun is locked up unless I'm carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it is stashed.

The older I get, the easier it is for something to "slip my mind." I claim that guns are special machines with great potential for danger if not paid attention to. My push for safe storage stems from that notion. I know that the words "gun laws" are fightin' words for many here. If folks had strong premises against safe storage, of course that would be one thing. But they don't. Their only reason is that they don't want to do it. Well, I'm going to chew on that until we no longer see unsupervised guns used inappropriately. I totally think the Liberal Gun Club can handle that level of controversy. :)

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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CDFingers wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 10:02 am My position is that unless you're carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it's stashed, a gun should be locked up. All my efforts with words describe an attempt to unearth the reasoning behind any opposition to that statement. All I have been able to come up with is that a segment of liberal gun owners exists who don't want to do safe storage practices. That's it: they just don't want to.

My carrying experiment is like an election poll: I did it for a representative segment, one day, and extrapolated out from there. I concluded that easily I could follow my principle that the gun is locked up unless I'm carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it is stashed.

The older I get, the easier it is for something to "slip my mind." I claim that guns are special machines with great potential for danger if not paid attention to. My push for safe storage stems from that notion. I know that the words "gun laws" are fightin' words for many here. If folks had strong premises against safe storage, of course that would be one thing. But they don't. Their only reason is that they don't want to do it. Well, I'm going to chew on that until we no longer see unsupervised guns used inappropriately. I totally think the Liberal Gun Club can handle that level of controversy. :)

CDF
The gun law I really wish was passed universally/nationally would be gun safety education beginning at least in Middle School but hopefully at the Elementary School level.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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CDFingers wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 10:02 am My position is that unless you're carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it's stashed, a gun should be locked up. All my efforts with words describe an attempt to unearth the reasoning behind any opposition to that statement. All I have been able to come up with is that a segment of liberal gun owners exists who don't want to do safe storage practices. That's it: they just don't want to.

My carrying experiment is like an election poll: I did it for a representative segment, one day, and extrapolated out from there. I concluded that easily I could follow my principle that the gun is locked up unless I'm carrying it, handling it, or can see directly where it is stashed.

The older I get, the easier it is for something to "slip my mind." I claim that guns are special machines with great potential for danger if not paid attention to. My push for safe storage stems from that notion. I know that the words "gun laws" are fightin' words for many here. If folks had strong premises against safe storage, of course that would be one thing. But they don't. Their only reason is that they don't want to do it. Well, I'm going to chew on that until we no longer see unsupervised guns used inappropriately. I totally think the Liberal Gun Club can handle that level of controversy. :)

CDF
Aaaand you continue to discuss your tangents and not the two points that were brought up. So there's that.

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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I haven’t checked extensively, but according to the Minnesota Gun Owners’ Caucus, the only bills that actually passed were a binary trigger ban and an increased penalty for straw purchases. I am not seeing anything about “safe storage” (I think that only got as far as the House).

https://gunowners.mn/take-action/2024-session/


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"I have been saying for some time now that America only has one party - the property party. It's the party of big corporations, the party of money. It has two right-wings; one is Democrat and the other is Republican."
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Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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CDFingers wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 12:11 pm
BKinzey wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:54 am
CDFingers wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 9:10 am People could always carry in their homes. Problem solved.

CDF
Silkaz pointed out a hole in your reasoning here. Your flippant reply doesn't resolve the issue with your solution. Here's another one: carrying while sleeping won't work either.
Yeah, so what do you do when you take a shower? Do you bring your gun into the bathroom--if it's stainless, you're good to go--or do you lock it in the safe? When you're sleeping, if you lay your gun on the bedside table, how likely are you to wake up if there's a bad guy in your bedroom bent on swiping the gun? Put it under your pillow if you're afraid. Problem solved.

It seems as if many folks want permission to leave guns just lying around. That's foolish. I will continue to point that out. That's why I did my experiment with carrying an entire day in my house, even cooking and playing guitar. I have the information. Do you? You may think I'm flippant. But that's a response from someone who does not have the data but instead clings to some kind of fantasy that things will always work out your way. Not true. An unsupervised gun is just waiting to be stolen.

If you have troubles with my position, bring it. If you post about unsupervised guns, I will chew on you.

CDF
This is a great example of the unhinged, intolerant nature of the hardcore leftists, folks. If you don't agree with them, they go to ad-hominem attacks and even threats. That is how you all can see that they don't have a logical case.

CDFingers, you've made some good points in the past. But this...you're supposed to be *WAY* better than that.

-- Proud Red Hatter
"SF Liberal With A Gun + Free Software Advocate"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/
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Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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Everyone should assess their own risks and tolerance. I don't carry anywhere I go, even on my own property (80+ acres), so they stay locked up. That seems to work for me. I dislike carrying around keys and a phone and don't even wear a watch anymore (retired, so who cares what time it is?). I saw a movie once where a gun was stashed inside the tank of a toilet, so maybe that could replace the water saving brick. Soapy hands might complicate getting a good grip, but it can be done...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrYtD7gSWsI

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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This and earlier posts have made me reconsider what is understood by safe storage. Varies with just about everyone. If a law were passed in your neck of the place where wood once stood, which required your gun to be inaccessible by your measure, would you obey It? I suppose that if I felt the need to carry I might consider it before I decided not to, but others have different needs and opinions about themselves and their abilities. I don't think I'm so badass as to be able to Bruce Lee my way out, just that there is no need where I am to put up with all the constraints of packing, or worries as to unauthorized access. If those who wish to do so can manage it, go for it. I'm just glad that in my neck, the wood still stand and people% has not yet reached critical mass.

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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Safe storage does not mean "inaccessible" by the owner. It means stored such that an unauthorized person cannot access it. The fearful person thinking they'll be home invaded by crazed illegal aliens had best wear the gun indoors or stash it in a place constantly observable, or in a quick access finger print safe; I wore my 1911 all day with no problems, so it can be done. Outdoors, depending on the state, person should get a CCW. If you're going to leave it in your car as you go into a prohibited area, you'll have a safe bolted to the floorboards for just such instances.

Responsible gun ownership just takes paying attention and spending some money. It's totally doable. Only laziness and inattention are its enemies.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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I don't think I implied that NO one would have access. What one person may think reasonable, another might think of as unreasonable. I agree that if there is no authorized person around to safeguard the thing, that is should be "safed", and I don't mean the Israeli city. That seems to be the main point of disagreement here. Stupid people are allowed to have cars, matches, children, guns. I don't believe that any law will lessen poor decision making. I am just sad that we're at the point where the damn things are needed to keep us off the autopsy table, rather than put meat on the dinner table.

This ought to be taken as just another point of view for discussion, but seems to have brought out the defensive side. The most immediate threat will be this November.

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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CDFingers wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 12:11 pm It seems as if many folks want permission to leave guns just lying around. That's foolish.
You bring to mind a friend, close to you in Chico, who doesn't just have his firearms lying around. They are on display. In one case is his slow accumulation of rifles and pistols from each major power in WWII. Elsewhere he has a display of lever-action rifles, with an attempt to have one from each lever-action manufacturer.

He is a super accumulator. However, he is an example of a firearms owner who does not have everything in a strong safe. If those firearms were in safes, they would not be serving their purpose, which is to have the display. There is also a store in Oroville that has, or at least had, an incredible firearms museum in it.

I am generally opposed to laws where a person can "Become" a criminal due to the actions of another person. The idea that I can leave my house and, while I am gone, become a criminal is objectionable. A person who breaks into a home and steals is the criminal. Not the person who was stolen from.

I understand, some crimes are so bothersome that someone has to be punished. The perpetrator, the victim, someone only tangentially involved, it does not matter, someone must be punished. That said, I believe punishing victims is both wrong and is ultimately counterproductive; even if id does make people feel better in the knowledge that "someone" has been punished.
"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” Matt. 25:40

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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This has devolved into an argument for the sake of the gun. I would have thought that most here owned for purpose, not passion. If an app were available for your phone, free of charge, which would absolutely protect yourself and anyone around you from criminal harm, would you say goodbye to the gun? After all, it would be irrelevant for self defense.

I'm sure no one here is advocating legal coercion/punishment, rather best safe practices.

An inhouse private firearms museum may not be as common as we are sometimes led to believe.

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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It really gets into the weeds here.

We know that CCW holders are the very most law abiding folks out there. Easily documented. I would like to see safe storage to be a part of that. It's something against which there really can be no argument.

Now, laws are another thing. Many states and many laws. The point of the laws first should be to encourage safe storage. Such a thing can only happen if the entire community is infused with the desire for safe storage, safe handling, and safe shooting.

There's a connection to root cause mitigation which I should write about in another post.

CDF
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: Democratic Minnesota Reps pass storage, reporting requirements, "trigger activator" bills

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papajim2jordan wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:56 pm This has devolved into an argument for the sake of the gun. I would have thought that most here owned for purpose, not passion. If an app were available for your phone, free of charge, which would absolutely protect yourself and anyone around you from criminal harm, would you say goodbye to the gun? After all, it would be irrelevant for self defense.

I'm sure no one here is advocating legal coercion/punishment, rather best safe practices.

An inhouse private firearms museum may not be as common as we are sometimes led to believe.
Actually, several have. One even said that had someone broken into our home and stolen my Dad's gun out of the nightstand, and then committed a crime with said gun, then my Dad should in that instance go to jail. So, yes, there is advocation for legal coercion/punishment by some here.
"SF Liberal With A Gun + Free Software Advocate"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/
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